Salve for Itching Ears: II

Dear Guests:

This is a continuation of Salve for Itching Ears: Rick Warren & Saddleback. In the thread under my article at Shaper Iron (SI) article Warren’s Saddleback: Salve for Itching Ears I was asked, “How is Rick Warren being in the same photo with candidate Obama any different than this?” He referred to the picture he posted of President Reagan and Jerry Falwell (see below).

Following is my edited reply to the questioner in the (SI) thread.

To All:

Is there any difference between these two pictures?


Reagan and Obama: Do the polar opposite philosophies need any clarification for you to understand the difference between these two men?





1) Reagan broke the USSR (*“The Evil Empire”); Obama wants to reconstitute the philosophy, i.e. devastating effects of Soviet style Socialism on our own shores. You do remember, “Spread the wealth,” don’t you?

2) Reagan would not negotiate with terrorists. His philosophy was to defeat them. Obama not only befriended and worked in cooperative efforts with domestic terrorists, he has stated his intention to meet with radical Islamic terrorist leaders without preconditions.

Falwell and Warren: Not as polar opposite as Reagan/Obama, but stark differences nonetheless. You would agree with that; wouldn’t you? I don't recall Falwell getting cozy with the United Nations (UN), such as Warren has.

I do know that Falwell said, the United Nations is “the infrastructure, the stage on which the Antichrist will build his one-world government.” I’m not sure about that, but no doubt Falwell had an aversion for the UN, which IMO is a good idea for all of us.

Rick Warren speaks to and aligns himself with the UN that seeks to “rid the world of ‘poverty, disease, and illiteracy’.” It must also be noted that through his cooperative efforts, Warren aligns himself with the same UN that seeks to “rid the world” of unborn infants through their murder while still in the womb.

While Warren is pro-life, he has a HUGE disconnect between preserving the life of the unborn and his embrace of Obama and the UN, both of which are radically committed to the slaughter of the unborn. I don’t recall Falwell embracing (literally or figuratively) pro-death candidates; do you?

Are you understanding the stark difference of philosophy between the men in the two pictures? Are you willing to acknowledge the radical philosophical differences between the Reagan/Falwell & Obama/Warren photos? Will you do that?

The main message of the Warren/Obama photo was to drive home the point that I put the photo alongside. Warren claims to be for the holy, but he routinely embraces the philosophers of the profane (Ezek. 22:8, 26).

Warren redefines ministry in terms of social activism. Warren’s Global Peace Plan for “Purpose Driven Nations” includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of “poverty, disease, and illiteracy” by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to the Great Commission and the NT church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles.

“Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths...Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them,” (Ezekiel 22:8, 26).

Is there anything I should add to further exemplify the stark differences between the men (in the two photos) and their philosophies?


LM

Redefining Christianity: Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement

An excellent book! Here is an excerpt:

Jesus said, “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you” (John 15:19). Not even the greatest marketing genius can change this without redefining the church. Seeking the approval of the world is precisely what the Purpose Driven movement is all about.

Salve for Itching Ears: Rick Warren & Saddleback

Dear Guests:

Earlier today I interjected a parallel thought in a thread at the pseudo-fundamentalist blog Sharper Iron (SI) titled The Small Church and American Fundamentalism by Joel Tetreau. Because a Mr. John Brown, who is a passionate apologist for Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven philosophy, posted a comment in the SI thread in regard to, but without identifying Warren’s Saddleback church, I inserted a needed clarification and caution. Following is an edited version of what I inserted in Joel’s thread.


In comment #20 John Brown is speaking in reference to and in support of Rick Warren and the Saddleback church. Brown wrote:

I have no doubt that what you relate is absolutely true. But on the other hand, the large mega I attended, 22,000 in weekend attendance, offered 14,000 hours of free counseling to church members, the community, and yes, referrals from several other churches. It also offered substance abuse and anger management classes that local judges ordered those prosecuted for such actions to attend. Mega’s have the capacity to care for the member as much as the mini if it is a priority.

Brown was responding to this from Joe Roof wrote,

In this area where there is 750,000 people in a 15 mile radius of our church, there is only one church that has ever reached mega-church status (at least 2000 people). It is interesting that there are a number of people in that church that call me for counseling because they cannot get an appointment with their minister. Wow!

John Brown is a former staff member at Saddleback. Brown has posted at SI before as an apologist for Rick Warren and the Saddleback philosophy and practice of ministry.

Allow me to supply a box quote from John MacArthur’s The Truth Wars, p. 147.

“Many church leaders have radically changed the way they look at the Gospel. rather than seeing it as a message from God that Christians are called to proclaim as Christ’s ambassadors (without tampering with it or changing it in any way), they now treat it like a commodity to be sold at market.”

In a section titled, The Assault on Divine Authority (pp. 146-147), MacArthur names Rick Warren in connection with the above box quote. There is more:

“Maintaining a positive image has become a priority over guarding the truth.

The PR-Driven church. Somewhere along the line, evangelicals bought the lie that the Great Commission is a marketing mandate. The leading strategists for church growth today are therefore all pollsters and public relations managers. In the words of Rick Warren, ‘If you want to advertise your church to the unchurched, you must learn to think and speak like they do.’ An endless parade self-styled church-growth specialists has been repeating that same mantra for several decades, and multitudes of Christians and church leaders now accept the idea uncritically. Both their message to the world and the means by which they communicate that message have been carefully tailored by consumer relations experts to appeal to worldly minds. (bold added)”

Rick Warren’s Saddleback church is one of this generations most stark fulfillments of the Apostle Paul’s prophetic statement,

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables,” (2 Tim. 4:3-4).

On 2 Tim. 4:3 M. R. Vincent wrote,

“[They] shall invite teachers en masse. In periods of unsettled faith, skepticism, and mere curious speculation in matters of religion, teachers of all kinds swarm like the flies in Egypt. The demand creates the supply. The hearers invite and shape their own preachers. If the people desire a calf to worship, a calf is readily found.”

Wiersbe wrote,

“They want religious entertainment from Christian performers who will tickle their ears. We have a love for novelty in the churches today: emotional movies, pageants, foot-tapping music, colored lights, etc. The man who simply opens the Bible is rejected while the shallow religious entertainer becomes a celebrity. And verse 4 indicates that itching ears will soon become deaf ears as people turn away from the truth and believe man-made fables.”

When you read the following select samples of Warren’s methodology you then understand why large crowds of folks, with ears that want to be tickled, flock to Saddleback and its satellites.

Warren embraces deliberate pragmatism of the worst kind. He believes that anyone one can be reached based on “finding the key to that person’s heart.”

Warren routinely misuses Scripture. The Bible is a tool that Warren manipulates to cover his own ideas with a veneer of divine authority.

Warren promotes extreme ecumenism. He has forged ties with the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptist World Alliance and the United Nations. Warren said, “I see absolutely zero reason in separating my fellowship from anybody,” Noting he has theological differences with many of the diverse denominations that invite him to speak, Warren added, “That doesn't stop me from fellowshipping with them.” When he heard of the SBC's withdrawal, he added, “I thought, ‘This is silly! Why would we separate ourselves from brothers and sisters in the world?’”—Rick Warren at the Baptist World Alliance- Global Baptists Are in This Together.


Warren redefines ministry in terms of social activism. Warren’s Global Peace Plan for “Purpose Driven Nations” includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of “poverty, disease, and illiteracy” by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to and for Warren replaces the Great Commission and the New Testament church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles.

Warren accepts the worst sort of evangelistic reductionism. “Wherever you are reading this, I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: ‘Jesus, I believe in you and receive you.'’ If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God!”(PDL, p. 74).

Warren said, “I am praying for a second reformation of the church that will focus more on deeds than words. The first Reformation was about beliefs. This one needs to be about behavior. ... We’ve had a Reformation; what we need now is a transformation.”—July 2005 at the Baptist World Alliance with Tony Campolo and Jimmy Carter.

For additional examples of Rick Warren’s philosophy and the Saddleback Church please read-

Rick Warren's Second Reformation

Purpose Driven's Compromise of Scripture

Rick Warren's Foray Into the United Nations

No Laughing Matter!

“Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers,” (Titus 1:9).

Saddleback in NOT a New Testament church! Don’t listen to the voices or printed words of compromise and betrayal. Reject and refute any attempts by the apologists for Rick Warren to legitimize the methods and ministry of his (Warren’s) Purpose Driven philosophy.

When you encounter the philosophy of and/or apologists for the Church Growth, Seeker and Emerging Church movements such as Bill Hybel’s Willow Creek Community Church and Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church, remember that these are ministries lead by men who have compromised and run roughshod over the inspiration and infallibility of Scripture to build and keep their following. Don’t listen to the voices or printed words of compromise and betrayal.


LM

See- Your First Step Won't be Your Last: Avoiding the Path to Compromise for related reading.

No Laughing Matter!

Greetings:

Yesterday one of my guests directed me to a site that has posted a review of an article in which Rick Warren (Pastor of the Saddleback Church and founder of the Purpose Driven [Seeker] movement) recently committed another serious abuse of the Bible.

The article where this is detailed is located at Extreme Theology. The article is titled; Warren’s Use of Scripture is No Laughing Matter.

What you will read is not a new revelation of Rick Warren’s misuse of the Scriptures. It is just another example of his consistent pattern of abusing and twisting the Word of God to suit his pragmatic needs.

The source of Warren’s most recent abuse of the Bible is found at The Christian Post. There is a comment thread that follows the article. It is this article that Extreme Theology refers to and its contents reviewed.

I also come across this article and recommend its reading.
RICK WARREN'S STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE: HOW THE "PURPOSE DRIVEN" PHILOSOPHY HAS MISHANDLED THE "PURPOSE" OF THE SCRIPTURES

In the Style over substance article this excerpt appears,

“One of the most disappointing aspects of Warren’s ‘Purpose Driven’ teachings is his heavy reliance on the paraphrased Bible by Eugene Peterson called The Message. Though promoted as a ‘reading Bible’ instead of a ‘study Bible’, The Message is a very flawed interpretation of God’s Word no matter how one uses it.”

Finally for today I want to recommend a book I have in my personal library and is listed in my Recommended Books section to the left. Redefining Christianity: Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement.

If anyone wants a thorough understanding of just how far askew of the Bible that Rick Warren’s philosophy and methods are he/she should read DeWaay’s book.

On the back cover is this comment,

“Bob DeWaay clearly demonstrates that Rick Warren strips the faith of key doctrines, accessorizes it with human wisdom, turns it into a journey of self discovery, and sells it to the unsuspecting world as ‘Christianity.’”

DeWaay’s book is as penetrating and powerful an exposure of the gross errors in Warren’s Purpose Driven philosophy and methods as The Godmakers was in exposing the Mormon Church.

Kind regards,


LM

NOTE: When I link to various sites please keep in mind that a link does not necessarily mean I endorse and/or support every facet and doctrine represented at that site. It is inevitable that I will link to sites that are operated by men or organizations that I may not be in complete agreement with on any number of issues.

I will link to sites that help bolster a position I take and want to discuss. I may link to sites that stand for issues I strongly disagree with, but link there so that my notes and comments on what is under discussion can be verified right from the source with which I have a disagreement. This way there is no possibility of my having misrepresented another person’s or organization's position.

Rick Warren’s Foray Into the United Nations

To All:

I am returning to a discussion of an issue in the ministry of Rick Warren who is Senior Pastor of the Saddleback Church and founder of the Purpose Driven movement.

A few days ago, former Saddleback staff member and Rick Warren apologist, John Brown, decided to address/defend the various concerns many have raised with the ministry and methods of Rick Warren.

You can view the list Warren’s errors and offences, which I posted in my blog. Read Purpose Driven’s Compromise of Scripture.

John Brown, as his first choice, opted to defend #6 on the list, which is:

Warren redefines ministry in terms of social activism. Alan Wolfe of the Wall Street Journal says, "Historians are likely to pinpoint Mr. Warren's trip to Rwanda as the moment when conservative evangelical Protestantism made questions of social justice central to its concerns."

Warren's Global Peace Plan for "Purpose Driven Nations" includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of "poverty, disease, and illiteracy" by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to the Great Commission and the NT church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles.

Brown’s opening attempt at justifying Warren’s egregious error and methodology can be read at another blog site in a thread I titled, The Gospel According to Warren. You will need to go to and read Brown's post #263.

I found it ironic that Brown wrote,

“And consider what Warren says himself in an interview in October 06 and decide for yourself if what he says is practical and Biblical or not.”

Brown asks you to consider whether Warren’s method "is practical and Biblical or not." Biblical? In Brown’s post of the Warren interview there is not even a single passage of Scripture cited! Nor in Brown's follow-up comments does any reference to Scripture appear.

Warren and Brown take a low view of Scripture and when they do use Scripture it is often twisted to fit their pragmatic needs. [Later, and only after my encouraging Brown to cite some Scriptural justification for Warren's foray into the UN, does he cite passages that he believes justifies coopperative efforts with the UN as if this is an acceptable substitute for carrying out the Great Commission as it is defined in the Bible.]

Brown misses the thrust of my reaction to Warren’s involvement with the United Nations, governments, etc. And this should come, as little surprise because the main thrust of my concern is a biblically based concern. Because Brown takes a low view of Scripture he prefers argumentation from reason and logic whether or not it is biblically based. This is consistent with Warren's pragmatic methods and misuse of Scripture.

It is no wonder Brown avoided any discussion or citation of Biblical principle, because there is none that justifies Warren’s social gospel. Since neither Warren or Brown offer any Biblical basis for what Warren does with the UN, lets look again at my note on Warren’s foray into the UN’s approach to meeting the world’s needs:

“Warren's Global Peace Plan for ‘Purpose Driven Nations’ includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of ‘poverty, disease, and illiteracy’ by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to the Great Commission and the New Testament church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles.”

The Lord Jesus Christ gives us the Great Commission, for example,

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen,” (Matthew 28:19-20).

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth,” (Acts 1:8).

As a missionary in South Africa I did what I could to meet the physical needs of individuals as I had opportunity, but that is not the purpose for which God called me to Africa. That is not what I was sent to do or the thrust of my ministry in South Africa.

It is no secret the UN engineers, promotes and funds programs that are antithetical to the Bible (see below). There is nothing inherently wrong with building hospitals and providing for the physical needs of mankind, but that is NOT the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20), and certainly does not replace and is no substitute for the Great Commission.

The thrust of my concern is that Warren’s method may be misinterpreted as though this is a model and example of how we are to fulfill the Bible’s Great Commission.

Warren aligns himself, speaks to, and cooperates with these UN based organizations.

Warren aligns himself and cooperates with the UN that seeks to “rid the world of ‘poverty, disease, and illiteracy’.” It must also be noted, however, that through his cooperative efforts, Warren aligns himself with the same UN that seeks to “rid the world” of unborn infants through their murder while still in the womb.

Brown’s answer to whether or not there is justification for cooperating with the UN, in spite of their pro-abortion agenda was related to another person this way,

“There are many organizations that we all deal with daily, perhaps unwittingly, that do things that are not good, even immoral. But if we can enlist those organizations to do good should we avoid them?”

Just as Rick Warren does, Brown takes a low view of Scripture. He considers the biblical mandates for separation from unbelievers and apostasy (2 Cor. 6:14-17) an obstacle to be sidestepped for the sake of cooperation with organizations like the United Nations to “do good.” This, of course, means one must agree to disagree over the problem of abortion to work together. An agreement Rick Warren wholeheartedly enters into with John Brown’s enthusiastic support.


LM

Comments OFF for this article. Your comments can be sent to me via e-mail. Thanks.

New Examination of Purpose Driven

To All:

The thread that followed my article YOUR FIRST STEP WON'T BE YOUR LAST at Sharper Iron (a pseudo- fundamentalist blog) has closed, reaching its 20 page limit.

I am developing a new article that takes a deeper, thoroughly documented, look into the extreme ecumenical compromise of Rick Warren in particular, and his Purpose Driven movement. I am undecided about where I will post it, but I will continue to develop it over the next few months.

In the meantime, as you visit my site, be sure to surf the Archives and Labels sections. The Lordship controversy is not going to go away. I want Bible believing Christians to know and understand what the errors in Lordship theology are.

Much of what you read from pro-lordhip advocates is sound. The extreme errors, however, in their interpretation of the gospel are there, but you must read with discernment to find them.

I am hopeful that this site and my book will serve to alert and awaken Christians:

• To evaluate Lordship Salvation as a false gospel.
• To recognize Lordship Salvation and avoid being influenced by men who promote it.
• To instruct other believers so that they will guard themselves against being lead to embrace Lordship theology.
• To biblically answer this works-oriented teaching by marking and avoiding (Romans 16:17) those who hold to and promote it.

LM

Rick Warren: Purpose Driven’s Compromise of Scripture

Dear Guests of IDOTG:

This article on Purpose Driven’s Compromise of Scripture and my article on (The Zichterman Issue) are examples of the very few times I break from the Lordship discussion to address another issue. Recent events that have involved a broad spectrum of evangelical Christianty have necessitated this break from the Lordship discussion.

Last week I concluded a debate/discussion at the pseudo- fundamentalist Sharper Iron site on the Church Growth Movement- Rick Warren's Saddleback/Purpose Driven philosophy and methods.

Men who are sympathetic and supportive of Warren’s philosophy are interacting on line at various sites. SI was happy to host one of Warren's most vocal apologists, John Brown a former staff member of the Saddleback church. They will do what they can to influence others to consider Warren’s philosophy.

There were several men who joined me to expose and refute the extreme errors of Warren’s Purpose Driven philosophy. Following is a listing of eight major problems with Warren's methods. This list was first compiled by Dr. Mike Harding.

The roots of Saddleback sink deeply into the ministry philosophy of ultra liberal Robert Schuller:

"During his last year in seminary, he (Rick Warren) and Kay (his wife) drove west to visit Robert Schuller's Institute for Church Growth. 'We had a very stony ride out to the conference,' she says, because such nontraditional ministry scared her to death. Schuller, though, won them over. 'He (Schuller) had a profound influence on Rick,' Kay says. 'We were captivated by his positive appeal to nonbelievers. I never looked back.' " (Christianity Today, Nov 18, 2002).

Warren spoke for Schuller in subsequent conferences.

1. Warren embraces deliberate pragmatism of the worst kind. He believes that anyone one can be reached based on "finding the key to that person's heart." Therefore, the unbelieving community sets the agenda for his church: Warren says, "We let the unchurched needs determine our programs; the unchurched hang-ups determine our strategy; the unchurched culture determine our style; the unchurched population determine our goals." (PD website)

2. Warren routinely misuses Scripture. The Bible is a tool that Warren manipulates to cover his own ideas with a veneer of divine authority. For example, in the Purpose Driven Life he quotes from 15 Bible versions and paraphrases, picking and choosing the one that fits his pragmatic need. This process often wrenches texts out of context.

3. Warren is guilty of serious theological reductionism. He discounts the value of a well-rounded system of doctrine and even considers doctrine an obstacle to unity. On his Purpose Driven website he lists his doctrinal statement that any Bible college graduate would find completely inadequate:

His doctrine of theology proper is the following: "God is bigger and better and closer than we can imagine". That's it for the doctrine of God. It is so insufficient one could say that it falls short of an adequate understanding of the Christian concept of God the Father.

4. Warren promotes extreme ecumenism. In April, 2005, the PD org. officially forged ties with the Roman Catholic Church by providing a training conference at Holy Family Catholic Church in Inverness, Illinois. "We are excited by this because we are seeing God unify his churches." (Pastor Brett Schrock, Purpose Driven's Director of Strategic Relationships.)

5. Warren justifies cultural capitulation by embracing anti-God cultural norms. A notable example of this occurred when Warren sang the Jimi Hendrix song, "Purple Haze," during the 25th anniversary celebration service of Saddleback Church.

6. Warren redefines ministry in terms of social activism. Alan Wolfe of the Wall Street Journal says, "Historians are likely to pinpoint Mr. Warren's trip to Rwanda as the moment when conservative evangelical Protestantism made questions of social justice central to its concerns."

Warren's Global Peace Plan for "Purpose Driven Nations" includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of "poverty, disease, and illiteracy" by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to the Great Commission and the NT church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles.

7. Warren accepts easy-believism.

"Wherever you are reading this, I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: 'Jesus, I believe in you and receive you.' If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God!" (PDL, p. 74).

8. Warren relies heavily on pop psychology. Popular themes in secular psychology appear regularly in Warren’s writings, shaping everything from outreach strategy to discipleship curricula.



LM