Surrender & Salvation: Q&A with Dr. John Van Gelderen

Dear Brethren:

Dr. John R. Van Gelderen

 

With this initial posting a Q&A Surrender & Salvation I am beginning to post articles, and related materials, from Dr. John Van Gelderen’s Revival Focus website.  Like so many believers around the world I trust you will be edified, encouraged and challenged by the written ministry of John Van Gelderen.


Question: In regard to salvation, what must be surrendered? Would it be accurate to say that one must only surrender his soul to be saved by Jesus?  And that surrendering anything else would be a works-based salvation? Isn’t this what lordship salvation teaches? You must be willing to surrender and be willing to turn from individual sins, pride, etc.? What is involved in “surrendering” to salvation? Would it be correct to say that the ONLY sin one must surrender would be the sin of unbelief (not trusting in Christ)? I have heard if one isn’t willing to publicly confess Christ, then they haven’t totally surrendered. But if that is the case, wouldn’t this be works based?

 

John Van Gelderen Answers:

Insightful questions! There is much misunderstanding in this area. Several questions have been submitted along these lines revealing the confusion that is prevalent. See also Question #14 and Question #18 among others.

 

The issue is not between soul and body. Soul-focus can be off-based too. The issue is the object of faith and the condition of salvation. The lordship salvation debate is not a debate on whether Jesus is Lord, but on what constitutes the condition of receiving salvation.

If surrender is made to be anything more than the flip-side of faith, it becomes works. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin as the problem, judgment as the consequence, and the righteousness of Jesus as the answer. [John 16:8-11] Being convinced of these three truths, when someone surrenders to them, they are trusting in Christ as the righteousness needed to be saved from sin and judgment. This is faith. Yet this is surrender in the correct sense. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is not believing in Jesus. Therefore, the core issue of surrender is believing on Jesus Christ.

When surrender is defined as turning from your sins or being willing to turn from your sins (your commitment to do right), grace is violated. This definition unwittingly places your dependence on yourself—your commitment to do right, your willingness to turn from your sins, instead of on Christ (the object of faith) to save you from yours sins. The focus of surrender must be on Christ, or the surrender becomes works-oriented.

Regarding the public profession of faith, what is stated above applies. Joseph of Arimathea was a secret disciple. This means he was in fact a believer, and his being labeled by the inspired text as a disciple was contingent on his faith in Christ, not his public confession.


John

Originally appeared June 1, 2018

 

FOOTNOTES
Question #14 Faith, Repentance & Salvation

Question #18 Secret Believers

Related Reading:

Of Sin, Because They Believe Not

Impossible Decision: John 16:7-11

The FBFI: Proclaiming & Defending Lordship Salvation?

UPDATE (9/16): FBFI president Kevin Schaal Posted a reaction to this review.  See my response at
Addressing the FBFI's Response to the Critical Review

The Proclaim & Defend blog is edited by Don Johnson for the FBFI.  The FBFI site states, “Proclaim & Defend is the online voice of the Foundations Baptist Fellowship International.”

The FBFI’s “online voice” Proclaim & Defend has posted a new and troubling article titled, “Following Jesus, No Reservations.”  The author is Brent Niedergall, youth pastor at Catawba Springs Christian Church in Apex, North Carolina. He wrote,

“What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt 19:16b). This young man wants to know how He can have the right relationship with God that we all need. He’s talking about what the Bible calls getting ‘saved’ or being ‘born again’.”

With that we know the author is speaking to what he believes is God’s plan of salvation for lost mankind. What is Pastor Niedergall’s answer, to how this lost man is to be born again?

“Essentially, Jesus is recruiting him. He says, ‘Follow me.’ However, just like Cookie Gilchrist, this man needs to be eligible for recruitment. Cookie wasn’t eligible to play pro ball because he was still in high school. This young man isn’t eligible yet because he has a divided heart. If he makes the right choice, he will be eligible. This is a choice confronting everyone. That is, not the choice to sell everything, but to choose if you will follow Christ. Even when a person makes that choice to become a Christian, there is still the recurring temptation to aim your following towards someone or something else.”

Pastor Niedergall within a football analogy is expressing John MacArthur’s Lordship Salvation.

To suggest a lost man must somehow become “eligible” for salvation is a departure from biblical truth.  Every person is born “eligible” for salvation because he was born with a sin nature. Every lost sinner, on his way to hell, is “eligible” for salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9) believing in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and what He did to provide salvation (John 3:16, 1 Cor. 15:3-4).

In my book, In Defense of the Gospel: Biblical Answers to Lordship Salvation, (pp. 171,175.) I dedicated an entire chapter to the Lord’s encounter with the rich young ruler. In it I made this observation,

“If this young man had recognized Jesus as God, he would have realized that he could not meet God’s standard of perfection. Jesus, the God-man, is that perfection, and all men fall short of it (Rom. 3:23)…. Jesus showed this rich young man that he could not earn Heaven through any good work. The Lord was going to show him that he was a sinner and condemned already (John 3:18).”

It is unfortunate that this article, which is Lordship Salvation’s works-based message appears at Proclaim & Defend, “the online voice of the Foundations Baptist Fellowship International.”  This sends the wrong doctrinal message to its membership. Publishing Following Jesus, No Reservations suggests the FBFI is Proclaiming & Defending Lordship Salvation.


LM

UPDATE (9/16): FBFI president Kevin Schaal Posted a reaction to this review.  See my response at
Addressing the FBFI's Response to the Critical Review

Site Publisher's Addendum:
Later we will examine another example of Lordship Salvation appearing where it had never been an acceptable interpretation of the gospel.

Dr. John Van Gelderen: Q&A Saints & Disciples

One of the most egregious errors from the advocates of Lordship Salvation (LS) is confusing the distinct doctrines of salvation and discipleship.   

“Those who hold to Lordship Salvation blur the biblical distinction between salvation and discipleship by interpreting the following passages as though they are the evangelistic blue print for salvation: Luke 9:23-24; Luke 14:26-27; Mark 8:34,” (In Defense of the Gospel: Revised & Expanded Edition, p. 78).

Dr. John Van Gelderen hosts a Q&A forum at his Revival Focus website. Earlier this month he addressed a question that addresses the doctrine of discipleship.

 

Dear Dr. Van Gelderen,

John 8:30-31 As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Can one be a saint, but not a disciple? It seems there are at least a couple passages (John 8:30-32, John 15:7-8) that indicate being a disciple is tied to works (the verses about taking one’s cross could also be included). Given “salvation by grace alone through faith alone”, it seems we are forced to conclude either (a) one can be a saint without being a disciple, or (b) works/obedience/discipleship are to be considered an *evidence* of true faith.

In typing this question, I decided to look up the words in the NT, and it appears that “disciple/mathetes” appears in the Gospels & Acts 268 times, and 0 times after Acts. While the term “saint/hagios” (when used to refer to believers) appears 60 times after Acts, and only 1 time in Matthew, and 4 times in Acts. If they are distinct terms, it seems odd that “disciple” doesn’t appear after Acts.

I’d love to hear your thoughts. Thanks and God Bless.

Dr. Van Gelderen’s Answer,

Thank you for your perceptive question and thoughts. They open the door to a wonderful truth. The New Testament includes several usages of the word disciple, indicating various “levels” of discipleship. The broadest usage of the word refers to all believers in Jesus—all saints. But in the passage you mentioned in John 8, Jesus challenged those who had believed in Him to deeper discipleship.

According to Jesus, the way to become a “disciple indeed” is to “continue in my word.” The word continue is the same term translated abide in John 15, and abide is the picturesque term for dependence (John 15:4-5). Therefore, when you become a believer/disciple though faith, you can become a deeper disciple or a “disciple indeed” through continuous steps of faith. When you walk by faith you grow in grace.

The issue is not the evidences of true faith, as if you inevitably do works fitting for a believer. The challenge Paul gives in (Colossians 2:6) is that as you received Christ (by faith), now walk in Him (in the same manner—by faith). The works that evidence deeper discipleship are by faith. However, they are not automatic, otherwise Jesus would not challenge us to continue/abide in His word and Paul would not insist that we walk in Him by faith.

John Van Gelderen

 See Question #79

Site Publisher Addendum:

“Salvation and discipleship are two separate and distinct issues. Salvation is the gift of God to an undeserving Hellbound sinner. Discipleship is what ought to flow from the man or woman who through the shed blood of Jesus Christ has been redeemed from sin, death and Hell. Confusing the cost of discipleship for the believer with the gospel of grace through faith is one of the most disconcerting errors of Lordship Salvation,” (In Defense of the Gospel: Revised & Expanded Edition, p. 85).

“When a man tries to carefully introduce verses about discipleship as though they are strictly evangelistic, remember that the Bible teaches that the lost must come to Christ for salvation and then follow after Him in discipleship. Salvation and discipleship are two very different things. We must not use verses intended to teach discipleship to try to lead a man to Christ. To do so creates confusion and frustration. The message becomes a gospel of faith, plus works,” (In Defense of the Gospel: Revised & Expanded Edition, p. 93).

Yours faithfully,


Lou Martuneac

1 John 1:9 – Salvation or Sanctification

This article, Salvation or Sanctification, written by Dr. John Van Gelderen, appears at his Revival Focus site and blog.  The article speaks to one of the major errors of those teaching  the “Lordship Salvation” theory of salvation. That being their failure to distinguish between the two separate and distinct doctrines of salvation and sanctification/discipleship.

Dr. John Van Gelderen

 

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

 

For much of my lifetime, I heard this verse referred to as a cleansing and restoring truth for believers who in some way had stumbled into sin. Such an interpretation affects sanctification. About fifteen years ago, however, I began to hear some claim this verse refers to the moment of salvation, insisting that it is really a salvation verse. So, is 1 John 1:9 a salvation or sanctification verse? After considering the various arguments, I believe for several reasons that 1 John 1:9 is a sanctification verse.

 

First, the stated purpose and audience addresses believers. The Apostle John repeatedly notes in the Gospel of John that when you believe in Jesus you have eternal life. He now begins 1 John, declaring that Jesus is “that eternal life.” Eternal life is ultimately someone, not something. Then, he states that his purpose for declaring this eternal life of Jesus is for “fellowship” among believers and especially fellowship with the Father and the Son (1:3), and for realizing “joy” in such fellowship (1:4). Both purpose statements use the word ἵνα (that) meaning “in order that” or “for the purpose that.” John’s focus, then, is not receiving eternal life, but having fellowship with that Life and so experiencing the joy of experiencing Jesus. Scripture does not use the word fellowship to denote getting saved but uses it instead to describe a blessing potential for those who are saved.

 

In the epistle, John addresses his audience as “my little children” (seven times) and “beloved” (four times). Also, John includes himself in the subject matter, using the pronouns we, us, and our more than 30 times in the ten verses of the first chapter. All this supports the conclusion that John is writing to believers regarding the privileges of their salvation—and not about how to get saved.

Second, the immediate context of chapter 1 and its grammar support the process of sanctification, not the moment of salvation. Verse 7 speaks of walking in the light. The word walking is never used interchangeably with standing. The moment of salvation provides you with a new standing in Christ. It is because of your new standing you can have a new walk. But walking is beyond standing, and therefore, beyond the salvation moment.

 

The words walk and cleanse in verse 7 are in the present tense, revealing they are repeated matters, not once for all. In keeping with this more-than-once emphasis, the word confess in verse 9 (explaining how to walk in the light) is also in the present tense.

 

Verse 9 specifically says, “If we confess our sins.” The plural sins reveals specific stumblings for which we must agree with God. If 1 John 1:9 is a salvation verse, it would need to say sin (singular) referring to the sin nature. The use of the plural cannot be referring to salvation or you would have to remember and name every single sin you ever committed to get saved! The issue here is simply the specific sins committed as a believer that grieve the Spirit. God never leaves us or breaks fellowship with us. But our sins break fellowship with Him.

 

But when we walk in the light by getting honest and agreeing with God, He is faithful (every time) and just (because we do have a right standing with Him) to (ἵνα, “in order to”) forgive us our sins. The verb forgive is in the subjunctive mood indicating possibility. This implies that which is future contingent upon agreeing with God. It is also in the aorist tense indicating the fact of an action. Therefore, God cleans us all up every time we side with the light of His truth.

 

Some argue that since all your sins are forgiven at salvation, there is no more need of forgiveness. But Romans 4:7-8 clarifies, “…Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.”

 

Technically, according to this passage, when you trust Christ as Savior, all your past sins are forgiven, and all your future sins will not be charged to your account. In this sense your sins are covered past, present and future, and you are safe. But even though future sins will not be charged to your account, they do break fellowship with God (not Him toward you, but you toward Him); thus, the need and provision for 1 John 1:9.

 

And third, other passages support the conclusion that 1 John 1:9 is a sanctification verse. Some truths are provisional but must be accessed by faith to be experienced. Galatians3:26-27 declares believers “have put on Christ.” Yet Romans 13:14 commands, “But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ.” Why does Romans command what Galatians declares? It is because positional and provisional realities must be depended upon to be experienced. The same is true regarding forgiveness. The provision was made at the cross. It’s done. But the access is by faith. Passages like James 4:7-10 [see article Draw Near to God] also concur with the interpretation that 1 John 1:9 is a sanctification verse.

 

While some may misuse or abuse 1 John 1:9, and even though our provision in Christ for experiencing His victory is more than enough, what would we do without the blessing of cleansing and restoration through the brokenness of this great verse? Many revivals start when some walk in the light and get appropriately honest before a holy God.

 

 

Dr. John Van Gelderen

Revival Focus

 

Related Reading:

The Relationship Between God's Grace & Lordship Legalism

 

Summary of Lordship Salvation From a Single Page

“The Place” Dr. Rick Flanders

“And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt-offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave wood tor the burnt-offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.”

(Genesis 22:2-3)

Abraham was a principal figure in God’s plan to redeem mankind, and his story is central to the record in the book of Genesis.  One of the most striking and important events of his story is the offering of Isaac, described in chapter 22.  In an account that reminds us of the Gospel story, especially as it is given famously in John 3:16, Abraham is commanded to offer his “only son,” whom he loved, as a sacrifice at a place in the mountains of Moriah which would be designated by the Lord: “the place of which God had told him” (verses 2 and 3).  We know where “the land of Moriah” is, and after the incident of the great man’s interrupted offering of his dear son (read about it in verses 4 through 14), “Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.”  Here was a place in the mountains of Moriah that was called by Abraham “Jehovah-jireh” (The LORD sees) apparently because something important, related to the offering of Isaac, will be seen there.

As Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt centuries later, God promised them a special land to which He was taking them, and where they would live under His watch-care.  Within the Promised Land, there was to be a place where God would live among them.  In “The Song of the Redeemed,” Moses offers a prayer to the Lord, and mentions the place with these words:

“Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established.”

(Exodus 15:17)

This special place is mentioned repeatedly in the later writings of Moses, especially in the book of Deuteronomy.

“Thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there…”

(Deuteronomy 14:23)

“All the firstling males that come of thy herd and of thy flock thou shalt sanctify unto the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work with the firstling of thy bullock, nor shear the firstling of thy sheep.  Thou shalt eat it before the LORD thy God year by year in the place which the LORD shall choose…”

(Deuteronomy 15:19-20)

“Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the Passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there…Thou mayest not sacrifice the Passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee: but at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in…”

(Deuteronomy 16:2, 5-6)

As the Israelites entered the Promised Land under the leadership of Joshua, the new leader also spoke of “the place where he (God) should choose” (Joshua 9:27).  There was going to be a special place where God would be honored and worshipped.  It would be chosen by the Lord, and His people would be led to it.

Of course, Israel finally settled in what had been the Land of Canaan, and worshipped God at the Tabernacle they had made for Him in the wilderness.  The Tabernacle, which was the center of the formal worship of Jehovah, was actually a large tent that was moved from place to place.  You can follow the movements of the Tabernacle in the narrative of the Old Testament scriptures. 

When David was made king of Israel, the worship center was split up and unusable.  The Ark of the Covenant had been taken out of the Tabernacle and used like a good luck charm in the war against the Philistines (read the story in First Samuel 4 through 7).  When the battle was lost, the enemy took the sacred Ark away, and then, after the Lord punished the Philistines, it was brought back to the Israelites but remained separated from the Tabernacle for years.  It was one of David’s first goals as king to restore the Ark to the Tabernacle and restore the worship of the true God. 

But actually, he never accomplished this goal in his lifetime.  Yet toward the end of his reign, King David did something by which he unknowingly paved the way for Jehovah-worship to be revived in a magnificent Temple.  A time came when God had to judge Israel and David for their sin, and He sent a destroying angel to plague the land, and the city of Jerusalem.  In response to the contrite pleading of David, the prophet Gad was told by the Lord to direct the king set up an altar and offer sacrifices.

“Then the angel of the LORD commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up, and set up an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.  And David went up at the saying of Gad, which he spake in the name of the LORD…Then David said to Ornan, Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar therein unto the LORD: thou shalt grant it me for the full price: that the plague may be stayed from the people.”

(First Chronicles 21:18-19, 22)

So “the place” of Ornan’s threshingfloor was bought by David, and an altar for sacrifice was built upon it.  When the sacrifices were offered, the plagues ended.

Later David got into his heart the desire to build the Lord a permanent Temple in Jerusalem.  Find the accounts of this in Second Samuel 7 and First Chronicles 17.  The Lord’s house would no longer be a tent, but a physical structure constructed as a house of sacrifice, worship, and prayer.  HoweverGod would not allow David to accomplish this project personally in his lifetime, but promised him that his son Solomon would build the Temple.  When it was built, it was built at the place David had bought, and that God had chosen.

“Then Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where the LORD appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.”

(Second Chronicles 3:1)

The Temple was built in Jerusalem by King Solomon at the threshingfloor of Ornan, which was located on Mount Moriah.  The place was called “the place that David had prepared.”

The site of the Temple was indeed to be the place God had chosen to be identified with His own name and glory.  When King Solomon dedicated the Temple, he referred in his prayer to the significance of the place where it stood.

“Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee to day: that thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.”

(First Kings 8:28-29; see also Second Chronicles 6:20 and 26)

In response to this request, God said, “Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place” (Second Chronicles 7:15).  The Temple stood at a “place” where God would give special attention to prayers offered in or toward it!  It was the chosen place they had been looking for.

God’s people before the coming of Christ repeatedly gave respect to this special place.  The LORD had said to David, “Since the day that I brought forth my people out of the land of Egypt I chose no city among all the tribes of Israel to build an house in, that my name might be there:…but I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there” (Second Chronicles 6:5-6).  Nehemiah referred to the fact that God calls it “the place that I have chosen to set my name there” (Nehemiah 1:9).  David called it “the hill of the LORD” and “his holy place” in Psalm 24, and “the place where thine honour dwelleth” in Psalm 26.  The prophet Daniel “went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, prayed, and gave thanks before his God” with his face toward the place (Daniel 6:10).  He prayed, “Cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate” (Daniel 9:17).  The Temple had been destroyed by the heathen because of Israel’s sins, but the place where it had stood still had its great significance.  In Palestine there was a place to which God attached His name and His honor, and in regard to which He heard and answered prayer.  The evidence indicates that this place was the very place in the mountains of Moriah where Abraham offered Isaac.

The ancient city of Jerusalem sits upon two elevations, called Mount Zion and Mount Moriah.  Between them is a ravine called the Tyropoeon Valley.  What we call Mount Moriah is really an eminence or ridge running diagonally from the north to the east of the walled city.  On the east end is what has for three thousand years been designated the “Temple Mount,” where the Temple stood.  On the north end, outside the wall, is the rocky ridge which in modern times has been called “Gordon’s Calvary.”  Appearances and archeological evidence lead us to believe that this is the place where Jesus died.

“And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.”

(Mark 15:22)

The place looked and looks like a skull.  It is the place where Jesus died as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.

“And they took Jesus, and led him away.  And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: where they crucified him…”

(John 19:16-18)

It was at this place that our salvation happened.  The Son of God came to earth on a rescue mission, to save mankind from the consequences of the first man’s sins (read about it all over the New Testament, but especially in the fifth chapter of Romans).  It was at a point in time, a date in history, and at a certain place that Jesus accomplished our redemption, by offering Himself as a Sacrifice to pay for our sins.  The penalty for sin is death, and Jesus died for us.  On that day and in that place, He took the blame for our sins so that He could suffer the punishment.  When He did so, He bought our way out of Hell and into Heaven.

“Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden: and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.”

(John 19:41)

It was in that tomb that the dead body of Jesus was laid after He gave up the ghost on the cross.  And it was in this sepulchre, located in the place called Golgotha, that Jesus won the victory for us over death and sin and Hell, by rising from the dead.

“Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures…”

(First Corinthians 15:3-4)

What a wonderful place is this very special spot in the mountains of Moriah where God gave His Son as a sacrifice to save us from sin and death and Hell.  Every sinner who turns from the darkness to the Savior of the world will be saved forever, and will receive eternal life.

“If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

(Romans 10:9)

Friend, will you not recognize that Jesus Christ is your Best Friend, and make up your mind to receive Him as your Savior.  Just think of what He did for justly-condemned sinners like you and me at the place they call Golgotha and Calvary.  We have broken God’s Law, repeatedly and knowingly, and justice would condemn us.  But Jesus Christ volunteered to take the condemnation of the Law for us, and satisfy it by giving His life.  Thank Him for what He did, and turn to Him for your salvation today!


Dr. Rick Flanders

Revival Ministries