Dr. Matt Olson, “I Apologize to You for...,” What?
On Thursday,
March 14 Northland International University (NIU) held its annual Day of
Prayer. The theme was, “Whole Life Worship Day.” On Monday, March 25
Dr. Matt Olson addressed the student body about the Day of Prayer.
The following (beginning at 5:48 of the video and MP3 recordings) is a verbatim
transcription of Dr. Olson’s remarks given on Monday, March 25, 2013.
“We have done a Day of Prayer the last seven or eight years…. I didn’t want it to get to routine where you get into the same ol’ same ol’ all the time. So, this last year I thought I really want to tie this to a right view of God and worship because I think that is so woven in with prayer. So, I had met Jason and Drew earlier this year and was impressed with their teaching on worship and I invited them to come to join us, same with Josh Beers. I think for many of you it was a real blessing Day of Prayer.
Some expressed to me concerns that you were not comfortable with that day. And I just want to say to you I apologize for that. The last thing I ever want to do (indiscernible) is someone, especially students to be uncomfortable about something. That is not my intent. My intent is completely that we are united to worship God and learn to pray. It was probably different than we normally do and I know for most of you you’re thinking, “what is he talking about?” I think for some of you, you understand what I am saying. It was different.
I go back to this; these principles have almost always driven when it comes to music in worship. Music is not going to be a controversy at Northland in the future. We are not going to let it [music] be. We are just not going to fight over that. It [music] is going to look different not that we’ve changed our core values and principles, but as you reapply those to the times it will look different. Most of our alumni that I am with look different than me….
People ask where is Northland heading in the future? I will say we are catching up with our alumni because I think they get it. When it comes to worship and music here is what I am committed to:
1) It’s Doxological. In other words, passionate pursuit of the glory of God above all things.
2) It’s Biblical: The commands and teachings of the Scriptures are the principles that guide us.
3) That it’s spiritual. That it’s in the heart. It is in the heart level and it manifests love.
4) Where it’s in the proper context.I just want to say to you as students there are going be things that you may really love and really not love as much or feel uncomfortable, but if there’s ever a time like in a service you’re not comfortable with something, two things: 1) You feel free to step out and I’ve said even if God’s working in your heart you need to go and pray, you feel free to step out. I don’t want you to feel trapped by anything. 2) You know the door is always open to come and talk. I am not going to try to twist or change or convince. I just hope that you feel we can talk through these things.
And I believe this with all my heart: If you live committed to these principals, what I’ve talked about: God’s glory, to be guided by the Scriptures in your life and do everything in love that God is going to bless that kind of life and ministry.
As we lead Northland we don’t do things perfectly, but I want you to know the heart in that and the heart behind the Day of Prayer is to be unifying and I think for many of you it was. I don’t want to create a controversy of some saying, “did you think it was good or not?” I don’t even want to get there. How you feel matters. It matters to me. It matters to all of us here and we want your experience at Northland to thrive and be a real, real authentic Christianity that’s rooted in Scripture, the Word of Christ.”
No,
we do not doubt Matt Olson’s sincerity – we doubt his wisdom. He brings in Josh
Beers and other men, possibly including Jason Janz for a “Day of Prayer.”
Matt leads the young people to mix, that which is most holy (Prayer) with that
which is profane (the world’s CCM/Rock music) and then renders an apology. Why
doesn’t he inform and apologize to their parents and pastors? The students who
are learning how to be involved in mixed-worship may not want to come home to
the old ways.
On
Thursday, March 28 I emailed the following questions to Dr. Olson and NIU’s
Director of Marketing Jonathan Bailie. I indicated that these questions are
being asked for the record and that an article on Dr. Olson’s remarks about the
Day of Prayer would be published shortly.
1) Matt apologized for a portion of the Day of Prayer that was not normal saying that something was done that “was not what we normally do.” Would you please clarify for us what it was that wasn’t “normal?” (Those who will be listening could come to any number of uncomfortable conclusions.)
2) There are those who are saying that some students walked out of a segment of the Day of Prayer because of the style of worship being introduced. Is that your impression of why they would walk out?
3) Dr. Olson said, “Some expressed to me concerns that you were not comfortable with that day. And I just want to say to you I apologize for that.” What exactly about the Day of Prayer made some students “uncomfortable,” and brought about Matt’s apology to them?
4) We understand that Jason Janz was recently invited to campus. His appearance on campus was noted at the NIU site. Was he part of the leadership or platform presence overseeing the Day of Prayer this year? What other role(s) did Jason Janz have with the student body in addition to and/or if not with the Day of Prayer?
Later in the day in an ad hominem laced reply Jonathan refused to answer any of the questions. At time of this publishing
Matt Olson has not replied to the questions. Maybe you have questions for
Dr. Olson about the Day of Prayer or another concern. You can find
contact details for Dr. Olson (and Jonathan Bailie) at NIU’s website.
Bible College students don’t walk out of a Day of Prayer when they are lead in the singing of “Sweet Hour of Prayer.”*Dr. Olson acknowledges that it was something “new” that concerned their conscience. What was this “new” thing that concerned students to the point of walking out? Dr. Olson said, “I Apologize to you for that.” We ask, “apologize to them for what?”
LM
Dr.
Olson’s remarks on the Day of Prayer begin at 5:48 of this video, 3:50 in length. The
video may not remain on line for an extended period. If it is no longer
viewable, you can refer to the transcription above.
*Sweet Hour of Prayer
Words: William Walford, 1845
Music: William B. Bradbury, Golden Chain (New York: 1861)
Pastor Brian Ernsberger has just published an article that has direct bearing on our discussion here. Please see, Is NIU Fundamental?
In his remarks Dr. Olson said, “People ask where is Northland heading in the future? I will say we are catching up with our alumni because I think they get it.”
There are alumni that have gone over to the world's CCM/Rock styles for their worship services. There are NBBC alumni that have gone over to the C. J. Mahaney Sovereign Grace, Charismatic movement. From all indications, which have been documented, it is these kinds of alumni that Matt Olson thinks “get it” and is racing to catch up to. I dare say the vast majority of NBBC alumni are not going in the direction of CCM/Rock worship methods or the modern Charismatic movement.
Words: William Walford, 1845
Music: William B. Bradbury, Golden Chain (New York: 1861)
Pastor Brian Ernsberger has just published an article that has direct bearing on our discussion here. Please see, Is NIU Fundamental?
“Do fundamentalists recruit students at rock concerts? Do fundamentalists attend evangelical churches and charismatic churches and promote both? Do fundamentalists have evangelicals preach in their chapels? Do fundamentalists promote camps that teach our daughters to dance? Do fundamentalists reproduce Broadway musicals in chapel, even if done in parody? Personally, to answer the above questions, I give an unequivocal, NO!”Addendum:
In his remarks Dr. Olson said, “People ask where is Northland heading in the future? I will say we are catching up with our alumni because I think they get it.”
There are alumni that have gone over to the world's CCM/Rock styles for their worship services. There are NBBC alumni that have gone over to the C. J. Mahaney Sovereign Grace, Charismatic movement. From all indications, which have been documented, it is these kinds of alumni that Matt Olson thinks “get it” and is racing to catch up to. I dare say the vast majority of NBBC alumni are not going in the direction of CCM/Rock worship methods or the modern Charismatic movement.
Site Publisher Commentary:
ReplyDeleteThe pseudo-fundamentalist Sharper Iron (SI) has, as many are aware, completely ignored any of the obvious changes at NIU. SI’s silence is in keeping with their longstanding practice of playing favorites, double-standards and censorship by omission.
Until a TylerR opened a new discussion thread asking, “Has Northland Drifted Away From Fundamentalism” reports of the changes at NIU have never appeared at SI. In the thread I have read this phrase several times, “is __________ drifting away from Fundamentalism.”
Allegiance to or drifting from Fundamentalism is NOT the primary questions/concerns that have been raised about NIU. The issue is NIU is changing (radically), abandoning the principles, practices, and separation guidelines found in its published articles of faith and handbooks that they operated under as NBBC. And NIU has not edited or removed the statements in the handbooks, articles of faith, etc. Musical styles and doctrinal aberrations that were once rejected from a biblical, separatist perspective are now acceptable, condoned and encourage by NIU’s administration. And Matt Olson continues to claim that NIU is “unchanged.”
Incidentally, NIU is going to be involved with another CCM/Rock concert, this time at Redemption Hill in Kingsford, MI on April 27. Entertainers include Jason Gray, Andrew Peterson and Caleb. Of course there will be no news of it at SI or at the NIU site just like the absence of NIU’s participation at the Osh Kosh, WI Big Daddy Weave concert.
At the SI thread I did appreciate this comment by Dr. Mike Harding. Dr. Harding wrote,
ReplyDelete“If the music issue is a non-issue to you, then you won't have a problem with NIU’s direction. Matt just had another music presentation in chapel recently that prompted a number of students to leave chapel in protest. Matt apologized for the offense, but at the same time insisted that music is not going to be an issue at NIU while simultaneously reiterating that they have not changed on music or anything else. Frankly, it doesn’t make any sense. He sounds like a guy who believes in white blackbirds. Also, Matt plans on recruiting in the future at CCM concerts. Personally, I think it is a shift. Matt says he is just trying to catch up to where his grads already are. That may be the case. Though the Northland grads employed at my church do not agree with the changes and are not where Matt is on these kinds of issues.”
Thanks Lou, for highlighting the continued direction change of NIU under the direction of Matt Olson. This "catching up to the alumni" statement begs the bigger question, are all of the alumni heading in the direction that Matt Olson is taking NIU? The answer is a resounding, NO! I daresay that there are hundreds of alumni who are not ministering/worshipping in a charismatic church, they are not ministering/worshipping in an evangelical church, they are not attending CCM concerts. What about "catching up" to them? This is not about "catching up" to alumni and any newfound position they have. This is about a once fundamental institution moving into mainstream evangelicalism. We've seen this happen before (Moody, Wheaton, Liberty, Cedarville, to name a few), NIU is the latest example. The one difference it the rapidity at which Olson has turned the steering wheel in making this change. Usually it's done rather slowly so as to not upset the occupants. Matt Olson has jerked the wheel into a hard left turn and as a result has thrown out many good faculty, staff, students and alumni, with nary a care for them. Well, bye, Matt Olson, you've been warned of the dangers and you've gone forward headlong and heedless to those warnings.
ReplyDeleteLou,
ReplyDeleteFrom reading posts at Dr. Matt Olson's blog, I come away with the impression that he never had anything more than a "briefcase" version of Fundamentalism. He went to BJU where he heard/got the Gospel right but stuffed all the "secondary issues" into a briefcase for later consideration. He graduated, got married, started a church, and began raising a family not taking the time to study his "briefcase." He readily admits he preached and taught the "briefcase" even raising his intensity about it when necessary to get its points across. However, it was not until he had to answer the hard questions of his own teenagers and began leading a college of questioning young people that he realized he needed to finally examine the matter of his college "briefcase" of secondary issues. He is now slowly setting aside the contents of the "briefcase" because he doesn't see them as providing real Biblical answers to the tough questions of young people.
I highly commend him for desiring to rid himself of only a "briefcase" version of anything; however, from his repeated book recommendations in his blog posts on these same secondary issues, I'm wondering if he has only exchanged a "briefcase" version of Fundamentalism for a "book" version of Evangelicalism. See for yourself. He encourages his followers to read John Frame's Contemporary Worship Music, Tim Elmore's Artificial Maturity, Ten Who Changed the World by Daniel Adkin, Timothy Keller's commentary on Galatians, and C.J. Mahaney's Worldliness.
I would encourage all those who would seek to lead others in the Faith to draw water from the well.
"It [music] is going to look different not that we’ve changed our core values and principles, but as you reapply those to the times it will look different. Most of our alumni that I am with look different than me…. "
ReplyDeleteI have made the observation repeatedly, that when it comes to glorifying God any more, the New Calvinists have stopped asking the question "HOW do we do that?" and replaced it with "WHAT does that LOOK like?".
Why is NIU "racing to catch up to" its alumni? This begs the question of who is in the role of leadership? It seems to me that this thinking is backwards and pragmatic. Should not the university be doing the leading rather than following the leading of apostate alumni?
ReplyDeleteWell stated. I'm an alumni and they are running far away from me and what I believe and/or will tolerate. My children will not go to this NIU - not that I think they will last long enough for my kids to be in college. If you try to be like the world, there are a lot of schools that look exactly like them in more appealing locations with professors who actually have appropriate degrees for what they are teaching. NIU will not survive.
DeleteYou wrote, "...not that I think they will last long enough for my kids to be in college. If you try to be like the world, there are a lot of schools that look exactly like them in more appealing locations with professors who actually have appropriate degrees for what they are teaching. NIU will not survive."
DeleteWith the possible exception of, "professors who actually have appropriate degrees..." I have to agree that NIU is on a steepglide path to closure.
I made a similar comment on another article, but it bears repeating. This idea that Matt Olson keeps throwing out there (pretty much all who have traveled this road do this) that they are changing the way they are doing some things (i.e. what it looks like), but they are not changing their core doctrine is poppycock. I Timothy 6:3 says that there is "doctrine which is according to godliness"--they go hand in hand. II Timothy 1:13 says, "Hold fast the form of sound words..." The form there is a pattern or model that is made up (or based upon) words. You can't say that you are changing the form, but not changing the words (doctrine). Because the form is based upon the words. One will lead the other in the way of change, but when there is change, both the form and the philosophy end up changing every time (unless you have the form, but deny the power). IMHO, in this case, the music is symptomatic of what Olson in others already believed concerning God's holiness, separation from the world, ecclesiastical separation, etc.
ReplyDeleteI see that the consensus over on Duller Iron is that this is just a music issue. That is completely ridiculous! Anyone who is willing to give this situation any kind of honest look can see that Olson is spouting pure and straight New Evangelicalism and worse. And when these changes take place those bringing it always act like they care so much about the people they minister to when in reality, they are subtly and incrementally trying to push their agenda with as few people noticing as possible. Case in point, Olson has the gall to say "I apologize for that..." and then go on to talk about how "music just isn't going to be an issue" and how they are going to continue to do it. If you apologize to somebody about something, wouldn't that mean that you wouldn't purposely plan to do it again? And, furthermore, he tries to come off all compassionate and understanding by saying, "If you ever get uncomfortable during a service, feel free to walk out..." How pathetic! So, now we're going to do make a change that we know will cause a group of students to walk out or be uncomfortable in the worship of God, where everybody (I assumed) was worshiping in unity before (who's causing division here BTW?) If Olson, and others like him truly were concerned about the Bible and people's spiritual well-being, and they truly believe that music is one of those so-called "disputable matters" in Romans 14 (which it's not), they would still be in sin by causing their brethren to stumble.
This train has been approaching Northland for a while now. When I was at the Heart Conference in 2009, right front and center in the book store was "The Purpose-Drive Youth Manual". The book store then was filled with New Evangelical titles including Swindoll's "Grace Awakening". That same week Tim Jordan gave what was IMHO a challenge to Northland to get on board with his changes. It was filled with humor and mocking of fundamentalism strict stands on almost anything. I felt then that that message by Jordan was a turning point for that entire segment of fundamentalism. I think that may be proving to be true. I don't think Olson liked being mocked by Jordan so he just joined him.
It saddened me to see the scene in chapel on the link. It was just 6 and a half years ago that my wife and I had one of the best weeks of our lives at Northland Family Camp. I accepted the Lord's call to ministry that week in the White chapel and the place that week was not perfect, but the preaching was sound and the worship was holy. So grieved to see that has all changed.
Mat
Mat:
DeleteThere are many, many NIU alumni and friends who are sorely “grieved to see all that changed” through what Matt Olson has done to ruin a once fine ministry. There is no longer any reason to give benefit of the doubt. NIU is well on its way to becoming a full-blown new evangelical school. Olson’s problem is that the school isn’t going to financially survive his changes. I give NIU two, maybe three years before it folds.
LM
"Duller Iron" - We are better than this. If Tim Jordan mocked fundamentalism, we should never return anything in kind.
Delete"I don't think Olson liked being mocked by Jordan so he just joined him." - Stick to the facts. When we make unsubstantiated comments, we only repulse the undecided who are in the process of deciding which path to take.
Let us not forget that our undertaking is not a competition, where points are scored because of our wit and way with words. This is a spiritual battle where the application of biblical principles are at stake. Do we maintain the pursuit for biblical separation against sin or do we compromise in pursuit of global acceptance.
Brad Johnson
Brad: Your points are well-taken. If I had editing ability for submitted comments I would strike those lines from what is an an otherwise good comment.
DeleteThanks,
LM
Brad, I appreciate your comments. I would certainly strike the opinion about Olson not liking to be mocked. It's just my opinion based on what I've seen, but nothing more. I don't see a little quip about "Duller Iron" as being an issue, but it's not necessary. I just think that "Sharper Iron" is a misnomer, because it does nothing of the sort. I could try and defend that type of sarcasm here, but for what? It might have been better left out. Thanks Brad.
DeleteAs for "wit and way with words", surely you weren't referring to my post. I don't think what I posted there could be mistaken for somebody having a "way with words", nor was that what I was trying to do. For what it's worth, I do believe that we are much better off presenting the facts and how they compare with Scripture. There is a place for strong words and sarcasm (many in scripture used the former, Paul and Elijah the latter), but they ought to be used carefully, and I think I usually do. In my effort to communicate the seriousness of this situation, I wasn't careful enough. I apologize.
Mat
The timing of this article could not have been any more coincidental. I just finished reading Ezekiel chapter 44 the other day. Here is one of the commands to the Levites (Israel's spiritual leadership):
ReplyDelete"And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean." ~ Ezekiel 44:23
It appears that NIU's spiritual leadership is doing just the opposite, teaching NO difference at all between the holy and the profane.
Andy:
ReplyDeleteIt is almost as if NIU administration is choosing the profane instead of the holy when it comes to music. After all, they have essentially run off and/or alienated anyone who chooses the holy, who gives God the benefit of the doubt, in choosing musical styles for the worship services. NIU has become steeped in the CCM/RAP/Rock forms of music. So, now they have to go to venues, like Big Daddy Weave concerts*, that feature this kind of music to attract the kind of students that crave those forms themselves. NIU's problem is that there are quite a few colleges that allow for that kind of music and they are not buried in the deep north woods of WI. Honesty, how many 18yo incoming freshman want to go to a college that is cut off from much of civilization. Nothing worthwhile, nothing distinctively Baptist, fundamentalist or separatist for the glory of God about NIU any longer to make the sacrifice since Matt Olson has killed off the distinctives of the former Northland Baptist Bible College.
That said I want to reiterate that the primary issues here, while they a include a radical shift in music, running counter to NIU's historic and published stand on music styles, they have also changed for the worse on toleration for and acceptance of doctrinal aberrations such the as the modern Charismatic movement.
LM
*NIU will be officially participating at another CCM/Rock concert on April 27. There at Redeemer Hill in Kingsford, MI., NIU will have a boot set up. The event features CCM/Rock performers, Caleb, Jason Gray and Andrew Peterson. The concert is being promoted by NIU's Director of Marketing Jonathan Bailie, who is also the principle of the company promoting this concert. Jonathan bailie also produced the Big Daddy Weave, Chris August and Citizen Way concert in August where matt Olson and at least 40 students attended and participated in the concert itself. See- NIU Plunges Headlong Into a Liberal Entertainment Approach Ministry
Lou,
ReplyDelete"we are catching up with our alumni because I think they get it."
Wow, what an odd statement from Dr Olson. Surely he must understand that he is actually only referring to one group of alumni. There are many others (myself included) that disagree with his new position and have not wavered in their own positions. Yes Dr Olson, your alumni do get it. What they get is that Northland has changed but they are divided very much over if that is a good thing or not.
When compromise starts, music is one of the first things where you can most clearly see the change though it does go deeper than that.
Jim F
Jim:
DeleteThere are many, many NBBC alumni who would tell Matt Olson that they are NOT among the alumni that he thinks he is catching up to. Instead, he has taken NIU in a far different and unholy direction that the alumni knew as students and they have remained faithful to to date.
You wrote, "When compromise starts, music is one of the first things where you can most clearly see the change though it does go deeper than that." That's right! The music, once it goes to the CCM/RAP/Rock genre, is simply the outward sign of deeper seated problems including the doctrine.
Thanks for the input.
Lou
Non-Scientific Survey:
ReplyDeleteI thought I'd give this a try. The rules are simple: 1) To enter a response you
1) Must be an NBBC/NIU alumni.
2) One vote, one time.
This does leave out former or current NIU staff/faculty who did not graduate from the school.
DeleteAlumni, "A graduate or former student of a specific school."
DeleteWeak. Leadership. Period!
ReplyDeletePathetic!
Dr. Olson's comments about NIU "catching up" to their alumni is pure BS (Bogus Stuff).
ReplyDeleteWhy? Because alot of NIU alumni weren't and aren't in the direction NIU is heading. But, apparently those alumni don't "get it!" Because NIU tradionally hasn't been associated with and involved with the groups and people they are now building relationships with.
Now, NIU is turning left and pointing their fingers are their previous generations of alumni and saying, "You don't 'get it' anymore! Yes, we taught you one way for 30 years, but now it is your fault that you don't 'get it.' Not really sorry about that."
Truth is, the NIU alumni that "get it" are only those that are defined by Dr. Olson himself that "get it."
The double-speak is mind blowing! Tics me off!
Matt Olson is following many of Northland's alumni into historic fundamentalism. That's right, into historic fundamentalism. Today's modern "fundamentalism" is a mere shell of what thriving, healthy fundamentalism looked like in the early 1900s. Then, men and women from many denominations banded together around the fundamentals of the faith. Denominational distinctives, though important in each denomination, were not barriers to fellowship and unity. This is the direction Matt Olson is going. Northland is removing the unbiblical "separation" barriers that it had erected between itself and other Bible-believing denominations such as the Baptist General Conference, Conservative Baptist Convention, Evangelical Free Church of America, etc.
ReplyDeleteThis movement out of the fringe and back into historic, fundamentalist Christianity is a breath of fresh air. I know, because as the grandson of the founder of Northland, I took this step in the early 80s. Sure, Northland's leadership at the time called me names, such as "new evangelical." But I knew that I was actually walking down the path of historic fundamentalism. More importantly, I knew I was obeying God and no longer calling "unclean" what God had called "clean." It wasn't that hard of a step because the Patz family was never in the camp that Harold Patz led Northland into. BJU style fundamentalism was not our history as a family! And separating from Billy Graham was unheard of.
So things are changing now, but for the good. Northland is returning to the Patz family roots. Harold Patz has watched his children and their spouses live devout lives for Christ in the denominations mentioned above. And Harold Patz, Les Ollila, and Matt Olson have seen the light. When your own kids are serving Christ faithfully in denominations once renounced, it creates dissonance. Thankfully, God has used this dissonance to wake up the leadership at Northland. Now, perhaps, Northland can become the school that God intended it to be. One that is in line with the founder and his family. One that reflects the glory of God and the unity of the saints. May God be praised.
Blessings,
Don Sailer
Mr. Sailer:
DeleteI appreciate what you've disclosed here. I will be formulating a proper response and post it as a new article on my home page in the near future.
Kind regards,
LM
Great article, Lou. Be prepared for the trashing you are going to get from those who "get it." Matt's statement to the students at NIU is classic Neo-Evangelical double-speak. Say "goodbye" to Northland, its days are numbered.
ReplyDeleteTod Brainard
Hi Lou,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words. Please know that my comments reflect my thoughts and observations only. I have never spoken to Matt Olson and I have not been on the campus in many, many years. I do know my family history, however. And I do know where my relatives are serving Christ and with whom.
Blessings,
Don Sailer
Don Sailer,
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to argue with you abour your family's heritage. I don't know what your family was like, your grandfather's beliefs, etc.
However, I'm also going to say that doesn't matter.
Why? Because The Fact of the matter is for 30+ years Northland Baptist Bible College, err, Northland International University lived, taught, preached, promoted, and associated itself with not only a certain doctrine, but also a philosophy of ministry. Now they are trying to move away from that in a relatively short amount of time while trying to act as if they aren't. They are saying they aren't changing, but in fact they are - quite a bit. Dr. Olson routinely points to alumni with a certain brand of doctrine and philosophy of ministry not in the mold of historical Northland saying they "get it" - as defined by him. But what about the previous 30 year's worth of alumni that you, Northland, trained a certain way . . . Do they "get it" or not - or are they yesterday's old fashioned left-overs.
The current Northland leadership has serious credibility issues on numerous levels. If they want to go Clubbing with the non-fundy crowd, well I guess that is fine. 30 years worth of alumni might have an issue with that, but Party on Bro!!!
But at least have the stones to say what the new & improved "Get It" Northland is all about with out all of this silly double-speak.
You can't do things one way for over 30 years and then get frustrated when people are confused or bothered by your poor execution of a change in philosophy.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
You said above, "Now, perhaps, Northland can become the school that God intended it to be."
Oh really? Says who? You? Do you have a direct line with God that nobody else does?
Don:
ReplyDeleteI accidentally dropped your comment asking me, "Since when do you allow anonymous posters?" The quick answer is: Whenever I want to.
Let me say to you that when you or I put our opinions and idea out in the public forum they are fair game for support, appreciation or criticism, sometimes harsh criticism. Today, you have been very busy at several blogs. I think that if I had not allowed your initial comment to appear in this thread you might not have had the attention that you've been afforded elsewhere. My first inclination was to NOT post your comment.
Anyway, if you're going to get into the blogosphere you will have to deal with reactions. You haven't been referred to as a non-separatist "Nazi" have you?
LM
For an article on a new development in the changes at NIU please see, The New Birth and Northland's Rock Band. The author is a former NBBC student (1994-2000).
ReplyDeleteLM
So what was the offending music? Your article says "Sweet Hour of Prayer". Did I read that correctly?
ReplyDeleteMy point was that folks don't walk out of prayer meeting because they are asked to sing "Sweet Hour of Prayer." What was performed in the NIU worship time was a CCM/Rock setting and that is why some walked out. Btw, see my new article. Yo can see and hear a sample of what NIU is playing on campus now.
DeleteLM
Don:
ReplyDeleteYou first submitted a comment to me above.
I have been undecided on whether to answer you here or in a main page article at the head of my blog. Just to get something on the record I am going to post what I have here (unfinished draft) in segments, for the time being.
LM
On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 a comment was submitted to my blog for posting by Mr. Don Sailer who is the grandson of Harold Patz. Normally, I do not allow for positive commentary or promotion of issues that I have concerns with. The comment I refer to, however, was one that I felt needed a wide reading. Mr. Sailer’s statement is a powerful commentary on the direction of where NIU is going. Of all the pro-NIU (for its changes) persons I have interacted with from NIU’s campus and outside Don has been the most honest, which is why I posted his statement here. Don’s comment highlights almost exactly what I have been saying and documenting for several years. I want to thank Mr. Sailer for being the first to recognize and acknowledge the changes at NIU. The pseudo-fundamentalist Sharper Iron that has run interference for and ignored (censorship by omission) the issues at NIU for several years has finally been compelled to open up over what has been the obvious and widely known about NIU for at least three years. A revelation of fact at SI that I am sure Aaron Blumer, Jim Peet, JayC and Susan R are very unhappy about having disclosed and allowed for discussion over. Continued...
ReplyDeleteHi Lou,
DeleteI am the grandson of Paul Patz.
Blessings,
Don Sailer
Correction noted. Thanks.
DeleteHistorical Perspective:
ReplyDeleteIn recent days I have been talking to several persons with intimate knowledge of NIU’s history and leadership. From that I have prepared a short historical perspective. The Patz family was rather isolated in Northern WI. “Pappa” Patz and sons all served in local churches. Harold Patz was the appointed family member to watch the family store on the NIU campus. Harold served as CFO. Harold was a graduate of Grand Rapids School of Bible and Music (not a bastion of fundamentalism). When Les Olilla came to Northland in 1982, he had recently worked with Life Action (again, not a fundamentalist bastion). Les pulled back into his BJU roots very soon after coming to NBBC and brought Harold along with him. I am fairly confident that there have been Patz family members who have been uncomfortable with separatist fundamentalism for a long time. The Patz family is still the family with stake to the NIU board. NBBC was not founded with as clear a pedigree as some may have thought. The perception of clear separation came under Les Ollila. Les came after the school had been going for a few years. Another item of significance is this - the kids (Patz, Ollila, Olson) have not graduated from NBBC and waved the fundamentalist flags. So, there is pressure for Matt Olson to drift with his kids and he is succumbing to the pressure.
Personal Commentary on Don’s Comment:
ReplyDeleteFirst, Don is among those saying, so what, this is NIU’s plan and we are glad! Second, Don is the closest to the inner circle of Patz family members to speak so clearly and succinctly. Third, this ‘confession’ has the feel of a last chapter moment. If I was looking to wrap things up on NIU, and all I needed was a good ending, Don may have provided it. In some small way what I posted here for Don has gone viral in our narrow band of the blogosphere. Don’s commentary represents the whole. Don is like a final character that knows all the other characters, and in their absence/silence essentially speaks for all. Don is like a final classic chess move, where the clever chess master utilizes his most unlikely chess piece to end the game and secure the match.
For over three years many people were ignoring, in disbelief or angered by my reporting on the changes at NIU. Today people are paying attention. I would like to recognize Don for being the first to recognize the change. I would theorize that the Patz family has talked about it and he is merely telling the public what the Patz family has said privately. The fact that he would speak for Les Ollila and Matt Olson and Harold makes me wonder if allowed to be publicly printed, would they have to respond?
I believe Don is a person with direct knowledge of family matters and this speaks authoritatively. The grandchildren of the Patz family are all in their early forties to mid thirties. Don is a cousin to all and they all lived in same vicinity and they are all family people thus giving him ample time to discuss and process his conclusions. I think it is fair to say that all these grandchildren are exactly where he claims. (I think his mother is still a board member). Continued...
Don’s openness, first posting here at IDOTG, may have ultimately been the final straw that breaks the camel’s back. There have been many resignations and forced departures from NIU already, but before the fall semester I foresee wholesale resignations and defections occurring. I foresee freshmen, sophomores and GA’s transferring, while most juniors and seniors endure to complete their degree. None of which makes me in the least happy to report.
ReplyDeleteLM
Lou,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the work you've done concerning Don Sailer's post. Having only been distantly familiar with Northland after Dr. Olilla had been there for many years, I really didn't know what to make of Don's comments. I guess we can conclude that NIU is simply coming back to its roots, which were not planted in fundamentalism. I agree with you in that there is no chance that NIU can be recovered to a position that we would be comfortable with. But there is one last thing that I'd like to hear from NIU. You said "The perception of clear separation came under Les Ollila." It would be instructive and interesting to hear Dr. Ollila explain the "evolution" of his journey from a not so strong background (Life Action), to having such a clearly stated position that the majority of fundamentalism appreciated, to a position of renouncing that position. Why was he wrong when he preached separation?
Dan:
DeleteThanks for the response. On Dr. O, I don’t think after over three years of silence, with one exception when Les supported Matt Olson with an Open Letter of his own, that we can expect to hear anything from him until or unless he departs NIU.
In Dec. 2010, following Matt Olson’s ”We are Unchanged” Open Letter (Nov. 2010), Les issued an Open Letter of his own, Is Northland Changing? A Chancellor’s Perspective from Dr. Les Ollila. In it appears statements such as,
“I have been spending countless hours in discussion and prayer with Dr. Olson and with Northland’s administrative team. I do want to make one thing clear to you: what you might perceive as “news” about Northland is actually not really news at all. In recent days some are questioning whether Northland has departed from the original vision and historic position that shaped us as an institution. Though this does not surprise me, frankly, it saddens me…. These adjustments reflect our desire to be faithful to a vision and to truth in ways that keep vision and truth in front of a new generation facing new challenges in ministry…. One thing has remained constant: since Northland’s beginning its leadership’s commitment to biblical Christianity has never wavered, and it’s not wavering now. If anything, it’s getting stronger… If you think that you are seeing a change in philosophy at Northland, I ask you to visit our campus and take a closer look.”
Frankly, even if Les has since 2010 turned against the changes, because he apparently said/did nothing to halt or slow NIU’s slide toward the “new wave” New Evangelicalism Dr. O has probably become persona non grata across a wide swath of IFB that once happily had him in their pulpits. That is sad!
May I suggest reading Les Ollila's Our Children Learn Not Only What We Teach Them, but by What We Tolerate
Thanks again,
LM
Good evening Mr.Martuneac,
ReplyDeleteI think it's important that we try not to judge, I understand how easy that would be for all of us, especially when we see another christian fall into wrong choices; but we don't always know the whole story and many times innocent people are blamed for others decisions.
We must first understand that Dr.Olilla has not been allowed into any meeting's for the past three years; he has built a relationship with Dr.Olson and the other business men now running Northland, and as any one who knows Dr.Olilla would also know that he puts allot of trust in people; why wouldn't he trust them when they tell him what is going on. (After taking the time to talk with Dr.Olson a few years ago I also was under the impression that nothing was changing.)
These businessmen have a way of hiding and skirting around issues.
Even in chapels if they know certain people will be attending they change the music selection and the music leader.
I honestly believe that if you knew the true story of what is actually going on at Northland your perspective of Dr. Olilla and a few other men would change. But or course this summer the truth will all be out.
Thank you for sharing your opinions on these matters,
God bless
Thanks for sharing your perspective and what appears to be some factual inside information.
Delete"After taking the time to talk with Dr.Olson a few years ago I also was under the impression that nothing was changing. These businessmen have a way of hiding and skirting around issues."
I have been told much the same from other recently departed NIU persons.
As for Les Ollila I am merely making some general speculations as many others are. Like me, there are many who are confused or disappointed or saddened that he is there and appears to be either on board or at least willing to go quietly along with the changes that have taken place. Its especially troubling that the changes initiated by Matt Olson are often at direct odds with Dr. O's years of teaching and preaching.
When students walked out of the worship (CCM/Rock) time during the Day of Prayer I thought that they had set the right example for those feel that they can't in good conscience stand by for this. Maybe Les should have picked and left if he has NOT changed from the man we once knew who so eloquently, powerfully and with conviction spoke against the very kid of things giving on at NIU today.
You suggest we'll know more this summer, I get and have the same impression and I do hope that will be the case. Not long ago NIU had a Les Ollila Day. Maybe that was a sending off event for Dr. Ollila, and indicates he will be retiring. If that is the case, then he will be at liberty to speak. I would personally be very interested to hear from him why he went to MacArthur's church (with Matt Olson, Sam Horn and Doug McLachlan) and was apparently on board with bringing Rick Holland (Resolved founder) back to NIU to speak to the impressionable students. See NIU Hosts Rick Holland
That said, and I am not happy to suggest it, Les has put himself in a position of persona non grata with many who once knew him to be a stalwart of biblical separatism for the sake of a pure Church and a believer's personal testimony to the world. After all that has taken place over the last 3+ years and in part due to his near silence, Les has alot of lost ground to make up and explain.
Thanks again for your perspective.
LM
I think you may be giving too much credit to Don Sailer. He has posted what he said above about the Patz family vs. Dr. Ollila and Dr. Harold Patz on other websites, including the "Do Right Northland" FB page many months ago. I highly doubt he is a mouth-piece for Dr. Olson and NIU. Don admitted himself in one of his posts above he has never spoken to Dr. Olson nor been on campus for many years.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it has been mentioned a couple times above that NIU was a BJU-type of fundamentalism. This is incorrect. The BJU type of fundamentalism has historically been about rules, rules, outward appearance, and more rules. NIU was never abour "Rules." That was one of the things I always respected about NIU was that they worked very hard at saying rules did not equal gospel truth. Northland has always been about the heart attitude towards the Lord, which is the way it should be. BJU and that type of fundamentalism does not have that kind of reputation.
Having said all of that, it just makes NIU's new direction more disturbing. NIU was never really into all of the bizarre parts of fundamentalism. In fact it worked very hard at Not being controlled by parts of FUNDAMENTALISM. Any yet they somehow feel the just gotta go even more outside fundamentalism.
Lastly, as another post mentioned, even if the Patz family was not in the same mold as Dr. Ollila and Dr. Harold Patz regarding their brand of fundamentalism, that doesn't matter either. It is just an interesting, perhaps, side note. What matters is that NIU was one thing for so long and now they are trying to be another - with barely an apology to the old way I might add.
Martin M.
Martin:
DeleteYou wrote, "I think you may be giving too much credit to Don Sailer."
Maybe, but I wanted to share what he had to say with my readers and react to him as I have. I did appreciate your concern. Btw, I am publishing this exchange as a main page article on Wednesday morning for greater exposure and discussion.
LM
I don't want to sidetrack this thread but I do want to question Martin M. when he states, "BJU type of fundamentalism has historically been about rules, rules, outward appearance, and more rules." Really?! I am an alumni of that institution. I am not a lockstep alumni; I have written Dr. Bob III and Dr. Stephen Jones on several occasions about things. That said, my days at BJU started in Sept. 1979 and I have had ties to the university since. Anyone who thinks what you say is indeed the mantra of BJU (in the years I am referencing here 1979 to the present) is one who in all likelihood bucked the rules, if they attended. I had no problems with the rules while I attended, the personal discipline that my family instilled in me before going off to college meshed quite fine with BJU. It was never about "rules, rules, externals." I had godly teachers through two degree programs take interest in me and my walk with God. I had dorm sups, prayer captains, society chaplains, and the list could go on who were not trying make sure we conformed to some form called "Christianity." Those who complain about any rules are ones who typically don't have any self-discipline and so they complain when any outside discipline is applied to them. Sure, they were on campus when I was there. They complained that they couldn't stay up past 11pm. They complained that they couldn't sleep in past 6:55am. Those same kind are still probably complaining about the new rules; probably complaining that they can't stay up past 12 now since that is the new time for lights out (not sure how one could complain about rising since you are required to be up and at your first class or chapel instead of a set time but some probably complain about that too).
ReplyDeleteSorry, Lou, it gets me when I hear people wrongly accuse BJU about the rules they have.
Brian,
ReplyDeleteI am a 90's graduate of BJU and I am also very familiar with NIU. Life at NIU was vastly different from BJU regarding the rules and how they were very often communicated to the students and staff. NIU most defintely had a a softer, kinder touch in terms of their rules and the application of them. I am not the only one who says similiar. I do not think it was BJU's "mantra" to have as many rules as possible just for laughs. But at the very least in a stereotypical sense that is the feeling many people have about BJU. The sarcastic quote about BJU of "I'm Right, You're Wrong" is not without some merit. I almost never received any demerits during my time there. I obeyed the rules (most often) and yet I can understand why people would say such a comment about BJU. And in my opinion the outward appearance factor, whether intentional or not, was evident to me when I was at BJU.
Perhaps my communication above could've been clearer. I was only trying to compare the two institutions and to say NIU was never in a the true BJU mold which I think is a reasonable evaluation. Please feel free to disagree with me.
Having said all of the above, Yes, I would consider sending my chilren to BJU - as long as they don't start using an acoustic guitar on stage for chapel services. :-)!
Martin M.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteMartin, thanks for some clarification on your part. I'm not interested in the distinctions between NIU and BJU, they are rather irrelevant, besides the fact that I know not NIU on that level to speak of any comparisons. As I noted, I was specifically noting the one sentence I quoted. Back to it again, most people I hear parading out the "BJU is right, all others are wrong" kind of junk are not even familiar with BJU. It is a false perception. Sure, as I said before, there were/are some on campus that have that mindset themselves because there are immature people on campus. But I hear that kind of stupidity from people who have no personal contact with the university, they go on what they hear (second hand info) and build an edifice they call BJU which has no reflection in reality. Those are the folks that I am decrying here when I brought this up.
ReplyDeleteOkay, Lou, back to the topic at hand.