“Final Salvation” is Dependent on Christ’s Life

Dear Guests of IDOTG:

Last week I received an e-mail from a preacher in which he comments on the previous discussion of “final salvation.” See- Does “Final Salvation” Serve as a Cover for Works Salvation? I asked for and received his permission to repost that e-mail here although anonymously. What follows is for your consideration.

Ironically, years ago while listening to the radio I happened upon MacArthur’s program and in that broadcast he mentioned that he thought that Romans 5:1-10 was the proof text for eternal security. That statement led me to look at that particular passage to see if that indeed was the case. Since then, I have preached from that Romans passage many times. It says,

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Keeping to the point of the current discussion, this passage deals with the assurance of what is commonly referred to as ultimate sanctification or glorification that some are now inclined to call “final salvation.” Paul’s repeated phrase “we shall be saved from wrath” and “we shall be saved” speaks to this future aspect of our salvation. However, it must be noted, contrary to *John Piper’s doctrine, the outcome of this part of our salvation is not dependent upon our own means but upon Christ’s work. Paul begins by reminding us that it is the death of Christ that takes us from being “ungodly,” “sinners,” and “enemies” of God to “being now justified” and “being reconciled” to God.

Reading the comments of the Lordship Salvation men about their understanding of the requirements for salvation, one seriously has to wonder if they would have us put our ultimate confidence for salvation in our commitment to be crucified with Christ than just solely in Christ’s death. Likewise, according to this passage “final salvation” is dependent upon “Christ’s life” not mine! Can they not understand what it says, “we shall be saved from wrath through him” and “we shall be saved by his life?”

Sadly, these Lordship Salvation men would have us to be consumed with minding our Christian life, our obedience, and our faithfulness in order to have confidence rather than relying on Christ’s life.

From beginning to end salvation is all of Christ.

If it depends upon me, how could any of us (those that are really acquainted with our personal failures and pretences) ever be sure that we had been obedient and faithful enough to exhibit to ourselves that we had ever truly been saved?

I love the way that Paul tells me that since God did the greatest thing He could do for me in saving me when I was nothing but His enemy I can have “much more” confidence that now that I am His child He would never cast me away!


*“There is no doubt that Jesus saw a measure of real, lived-out obedience to the will of God as necessary for final salvation.” (John Piper, What Jesus Demands From the World, p. 160).

“Endurance in faith is a condition for future salvation. Only those who endure in faith will be saved for eternity.” (R. C. Sproul, Grace Unknown, p. 198.)

Does “Final Salvation” Serve as a Cover for Works-Salvation?

In the scores of articles at this blog each is accompanied by a discussion thread. Some articles generate no comments, some a few comments others can exceed 100 comments. Unfortunately every thread comment is lost over time as new articles push the preceding article and its thread further down into the archives. Among these hundreds of thread comments occasionally a comment is posted that in my opinion merits repeating as a main page article. Just such a comment was posted in the thread under the previous article, Is the Term “Final Salvation” Necessarily Wrong?

Pastor Tom Stegall is the author of The Gospel of the Christ: A Biblical Response to the Crossless Gospel… .
This year I ran an extended series of excerpts from The Gospel of the Christ beginning with Stegall’s introduction to the series, then ironically closed with the Foreword to his book. The “Lordship Salvation” Label was one of my personal favorites and it has some bearing on our current discussion.

Pastor Stegall has been reading the articles in which I’ve been discussing Dr. Dave Doran’s The Gospel and Separation series from his personal blog. In the “Final Salvation” article/thread he posted an extended comment with a Q&A exercise that I believe was a helpful contribution to our previous discussion of the close proximity of Lordship Salvation and Roman Catholicism. The most disconcerting statement and arguably closest to Romanism among many coming from advocates of Lordship Salvation is the following by John Piper.

“There is no doubt that Jesus saw a measure of real, lived-out obedience to the will of God as necessary for final salvation.” (What Jesus Demands From the World, p. 160).

For the record on this matter I am repeating here a comment I made in the previous thread.

“It is statements like these…where some men find MacArthur and Piper in their LS message treading dangerously close to a Roman Catholicism like message. I don’t believe they have gone there, but these statements are very alarming and by and large given a complete pass by Reformed men in IFB circles. Not one of these extreme statements have ever been explained, edited or eliminated. They have in fact been reiterated and reinforced by the men who make them such as MacArthur, Piper, et. al., for two decades.”

With that I offer for your consideration Ps. Tom Stegall’s thread comment turned article.


Does “Final Salvation” Serve as a Cover for Works-Salvation?

I am so grateful that this topic of “final salvation” is being addressed here. This is a critical subject. So often this phrase serves as a cover for Works-salvation. Bible-believing Christians need to be far more discerning these days than we have been. It is truly disturbing to read the statements of so-called “evangelical, fundamental” or “Protestant” leaders these days that sound perilously close to Romanism.

Kev raises a great question, “Isn’t this usage of ‘final salvation’ by Lordship Salvationists just the ‘escape clause for closet Catholicism’?!” I would say, technically “No,” but practically “Yes!”

As one who was saved out of Catholicism and who was definitely trusting in his own works and righteousness before being born again by God’s grace, I will tell you it sure hits me as diluted Catholicism when I read the Lordship Salvation statements of leaders like John Piper, John MacArthur... .

Here is an interesting spiritual exercise. Try to guess whether the following quotes come from a Calvinist author, Arminian, or Roman Catholic (the answers are found at the bottom):

1) “Endurance in faith is a condition for future salvation. Only those who endure in faith will be saved for eternity.”
Arminian, Calvinist or Roman Catholic?

2) “The Scriptures repeatedly exhort us to persevere, to ‘hang in there.’ It is only the one who endures to the end who will be saved.”
Arminian, Calvinist or Roman Catholic?

3) “There is no cleansing from sin, and no salvation, without a continual walking in God’s light.”
Arminian, Calvinist or Roman Catholic?

4) “We cannot ‘earn’ our salvation though good works, but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life.”
Arminian, Calvinist or Roman Catholic?

5) “The kingdom is not for people who want Jesus without any change in their living. It is only for those who seek it with all their hearts, those who agonize to enter. Many who approach the gate turn away upon finding out the cost. Lest someone object that this is a salvation of human effort, remember it is only the enablement of divine grace that empowers a person to pass through the gate.” . . . “While justification and sanctification are distinct theological concepts, both are essential elements of salvation. God will not declare a person righteous without also making him righteous.”
Arminian, Calvinist or Roman Catholic?

And Now for the Answers:
1) [Calvinist] R.C. Sproul, Grace Unknown, 198.

2) [Roman Catholic] Joseph Kindel, What Must I Do to be Saved?, 79.

3) [Arminian] Guy Duty, If Ye Continue, 141.

4) [Roman Catholic] Tract, Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth, p.23

5) [Calvinist] John MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1988), 183, 187.

By showing this, I don’t mean to deny that legitimate differences exist between Protestants (Arminian or Calvinist) and Roman Catholics, especially over the role of the sacraments in salvation, but I think any honest reading of these quotes also shows that their respective doctrines of salvation ultimately end up in the same place: you better have works that go with your enduring faith if you want to arrive at “final salvation.”

The modern state of affairs among Evangelicals (such as Piper & MacArthur), Reformed Fundamentalists..., and Roman Catholics is so abysmal and confusing these days regarding salvation, perhaps a new theological term ought to be coined to lump them all together:

Roman Calminians!


Please continue to, “Final Salvation” is Dependent on Christ’s Life

Editor’s Note:
In the original thread comment there was a reference to Dr. Dave Doran. In a follow-up conversation with Ps. Stegall prior to posting this article we agreed that the references to Dr. Doran from the original thread comment should be dropped for this article. Dave Doran leaves no blatant statements like the examples above. There are none of the extreme statements from Brother Doran, which can be easily demonstrated from MacArthur, Piper, Washer, Chantry, Lawson, et. al.

The Gospel and Separation: Is the Term “Final Salvation” Necessarily Wrong?

In my previous article I included the following edited excerpt from IDOTG: Biblical Answers to Lordship Salvation.

“It would seem reasonable to me that men who claim the Bible as their sole authority should be willing to openly discuss their doctrinal positions. This at least allows for a better mutual understanding, if not reconciliation of any differences. The Bible teaches that doctrine is the basis for all unity and practice. How then can men call for unity (or biblical separation) if there exists an unwillingness to openly discuss their doctrinal positions and define their terms with precision?”

Today we are returning with the third in the series in which I am reviewing select excerpts from Dr. Dave Doran’s series, The Gospel and Separation, Part 3. In the first installment of this review, among other important considerations, I discussed his usage of the term, “final salvation.”

Dr. Doran recognized clarification of the term was sought and he responded with a brief reply here from his blog, Glory and Grace. I have read and also referenced his reply in my previous article, Interim Discussion and Primer for the Balance.

The following is a compilation of my thoughts on the subject plus discussion points drawn from several men I communicated with who have considered Dr. Doran’s Part 3 of The Gospel and Separation and his clarification article on the usage of “final salvation.”

Is Dave Doran in Error When He Uses the Phrase “the promise of final salvation?”

I would say the term “final salvation” in itself is not necessarily wrong, but I have been noticing a tendency of Calvinist/Lordship Salvationists using this term in such a way that raises a red flag. John Piper used it in his book What Jesus Demands From the World, in such a way that disturbing implications are evident, which will be referenced below.

An analogy to “final salvation” might be the term “full gospel.” While “full gospel” may be a valid concept in that nothing should be detracted from the gospel, that term has found a common usage among Pentecostals who claim their version of “tongues” and “spiritual gifts” should be included in the preaching of the gospel. In the same way “full gospel” raises a red flag, so may the term “final salvation.”

Biblically, there is a salvation, which we await (Rom. 13:11; Heb. 9:28; 1 Pet. 1:5). This is not salvation from Hell, but salvation from everything involved in living under the curse (Rom. 8:18-23) including sufferings, unglorified bodies, *possession of the sin nature (Rom. 7:23), living under corruption, and even the time of wrath that is coming upon the earth unto glorification with Jesus Christ (1 Thess. 5:9). In other words, this “final salvation” is “glorification.”

In recent days I have been communicating extensively with a friend about various elements of the Gospel, Dr. Doran’s commentary and my initial review. Knowing I would post at length on “final salvation,” in his most recent e-mail he shared the following with me, which I appreciate:

“It sounds like Dr. Doran is espousing the basic doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. Arminians taught that the saints would be saved if they persevered. Calvinistic men teach that since believers are justified, they will persevere in the faith. Salvation is a term that covers foreknowledge – glorification and everything in between those two items. Final salvation, therefore, is another term for glorification. All justified people will persevere and be glorified = final salvation.”

Scripturally, glorification is inherent to the package of blessings guaranteed with our salvation from hell or justification. In other words, glorification is guaranteed with salvation from hell with no other conditions (Rom. 5:9; 8:29-30; 8:32-39; 1 Cor. 15:51-57; 2 Cor. 1:22; 5:1-5; Eph. 1:13-14; 2:5-8; 4:30; 1 Thess. 5:4-10; 2 Thess. 1:10). It is simply a matter of time before the blessing is actually realized-- partially realized upon death (Phil. 1:23) and fully realized at Christ’s return for the church (Phil. 3:20-21).

The problem is when Lordship Salvation advocates say or imply there are conditions, requirements, or things necessary leading up to “final salvation” in addition to the person’s initial faith through which he was saved, i.e., born again (Eph. 1:13-14; 2:5-8). For example John Piper wrote:

“There is no doubt that Jesus saw a measure of real, lived-out obedience to the will of God as necessary for final salvation.” (What Jesus Demands From the World, p. 160).

Since glorification is part of the package deal of salvation and is guaranteed along with justification, which is by grace through faith apart from works, how can “lived out obedience to the will of God” (i.e., works) be “necessary for final salvation?”

Piper’s statement clearly implies obedient Christian living is “necessary for final salvation.” The implication being if the foreordained “good works” (Eph. 2:10) are not performed then “final salvation, i.e., glorification will not be realized. While I appreciate Dr. Doran’s clarifying response to the question(s) raised here he might consider distancing himself from, rejecting Piper’s expression of “final salvation” and admonishing him for it.

Conclusion:

There are Calvinists, who advocate Lordship Salvation, that think they have escaped the charge of works based salvation by saying the “good works” (Eph. 2:10) are required for “final salvation,” but not “initial salvation.” If the works of a disciple **promised or performed are required in any sense to reach Heaven with Jesus Christ, how can one truly say salvation is “by faith…not of works”?

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast,” (Eph. 2:8-9).

LM

Please continue to Does “Final Salvation” Serve as a Cover for Works Salvation?

*In one sense, all believers have already realized salvation from the sin nature in that we’ve died to it so that it no longer has the right to control us (Romans 6:2; 11), but at the same time we still possess it and may give into it (Romans 6:7; 12) until death or rapture.

**See- John MacArthur’s Performance Guidelines for “Lordship” Salvation

The Gospel & Separation: Interim Discussion and Primer for the Balance

Dear Guests of IDOTG:

Last week I began a critical review of the on line series by Dr. Dave Doran, which appears at his Glory & Grace blog. The series under review is titled, The Gospel and Separation. The series at Glory & Grace continues, but has taken on some new sub-titles. The primary area under consideration here, however, is Part 3 of his series. However, before I continue with my review of Brother Doran’s comments I want to do a bit of important housekeeping.

In my reviews and/or publications of various doctrinal or practical issues- Personality has not been the issue. In my efforts to address and expose the twin errors of Lordship Salvation and the Crossless Gospel I have made every effort to avoid any appearance of a personality clash because there is none. For example, although I utterly reject the Lordship Salvation interpretation of the Gospel of *John MacArthur I can and do appreciate his good work with other concerns such as the Charismatic and Emergent movements and his public rebuke of Mark Driscoll for his (Driscoll’s) “filthy communication” (Col. 3:8).

When we discuss doctrine, personalities are involved and some will take it personally when the public statements of personalities come under scrutiny. Some men in our Christian circles are very popular and have a following. I understand how some can take offense when a man they love and respect has his public teaching come under legitimate scrutiny.

My desire is for all concerned to understand that in the review of Dr. Doran’s doctrinal statements there is no personality clash. We are reviewing, discussing and seeking clarification of statements from a man who is addressing the Gospel and separation in a public venue. That is all.

For those who may not be aware of it Dr. Doran and I have a long time personal relationship. It goes back to 1995, possibly 1994 when I was a deputation missionary to South Africa. I asked for and was given an opportunity to present my case or South Africa at Inter-City Baptist Church (ICBC) where Dr. Doran was and still is the senior pastor. That Sunday I spoke to the church about my call and preached from the Scriptures on the need of missionary effort to the uttermost parts of the earth. The next day I was able to go along with the ICBC youth group on a ski outing to Mt. Brighton. I had a great time, ICBC took me on for support and it continued until I came home from the field.

To be fair and transparent I want my readers to know that while I was on the field in South Africa I did begin writing critically of Calvinism and Lordship Salvation. In my book IDOTG: Biblical Answers to Lordship Salvation I explain why this became necessary at our Bible college. Dr. Doran contacted me about it and after some discussion he decided that because I had gone public in opposition to Calvinism, which he and his church holds to, that it would be appropriate to discontinue our cooperative effort, but not until I came home from the field so that my family would not be under any undue financial pressure while still on the field. Dr. Doran also said that he had not fully read the position paper on Lordship Salvation, but in his opinion he would likely have serious disagreements with it. I had no problem with his decision and thanked him and his church for their support. I sincerely appreciate the time we enjoyed together in a cooperative effort for the cause of global missions.

As we continue this series in review of Dr. Doran’s The Gospel and Separation, Part 3 I trust all readers will view this as a critical review of statements published in a public venue. The Gospel is the foundation of our faith. Good men can discuss the doctrine apart from a personality clash.

It would seem reasonable to me that men who claim the Bible as their sole authority should be willing to openly discuss their doctrinal positions. This at least allows for a better mutual understanding, if not reconciliation of any differences. The Bible teaches that doctrine is the basis for all unity and practice. How then can men call for unity (or biblical separation) if there exists an unwillingness to openly discuss their doctrinal positions and define their terms with precision? (Edited excerpt from IDOTG.)

In my next installment (to follow later in the week) I am going to address Dr. Doran’s use of the expression, “the promise of final salvation.” Late last week Dr. Doran responded from his blog to the question(s) raised here in the previous article about that expression. His reply to the requests for clarification raised here appear under the title, One Less Nit to Pick.

I appreciate Dr. Doran’s attempt to put in context and clarify the “final salvation” statement. I will also include a few remarks about his reference to, “the biblical gospel in its fullness.” Following my commentary on Brother Doran’s, “final salvation” I will then, in a new article, turn my attention to his reference of the “Lordship” of Christ in Gospel preaching.

Yours in His service,


LM

*See John MacArthur’s Discipleship Gospel

Please continue to, Is the Term “Final Salvation” Necessarily Wrong?

The Gospel & Separation: A Series by Dr. Dave Doran

Dear Guests of IDOTG:

I am reading a new multi-part on line series by *Dr. Dave Doran. It is titled The Gospel and Separation and appears at Dr. Doran’s personal blog, Glory & Grace. The series is prefaced by two introductory articles, but begins in earnest with The Gospel and Separation I and to date has four installments.

The following four excerpts from Part 3 are IMO of particular interest.

“Preaching the gospel also means announcing His exaltation, Lordship, and coming Kingdom (Acts 2:36; 2 Cor 4:5; Acts 8:12; cf. 14:22).”

“Gospel preaching offers the promise of final salvation through Him (Acts 13:38-39; cf. 1 Ths 1:10 ‘to wait for His Son from heaven…who rescues us from the wrath to come’).”

“Any doctrinal threat to the person and work of Jesus Christ cuts at the heart of biblical Christianity. Because it attacks a fundamental of the faith, the gospel is at stake. Paul warned about people who might preach ‘another Jesus’ than the one that Paul had preached (2 Cor 11:4). The only Jesus who saves is the one revealed to us in the Scriptures. Any so-called gospel that rejects or distorts what the Scriptures teach about Jesus Christ is no gospel at all.”

“This means there is no ‘gospel lite’—either you have the biblical gospel in its fullness or you don’t have the gospel at all.”

There are several portions I highlighted for consideration, but there is one I would like to focus on for this article, which is: “final salvation, through Him?” What is “final salvation?” It has a man-made ring to it, which I first read in John Piper’s What Jesus Demands From the World, (p. 160).

“There is no doubt that Jesus saw a measure of real, lived-out obedience to the will of God as necessary for final salvation.”

Is this the “final salvation” Dr. Doran speaks of; “...lived-out obedience to the will of God?” Could that be the ground Dr. Doran is staking out as the Gospel, the saving message? What is UNfinal about salvation, receiving the gift of eternal life, once a man is born again by grace through faith in Christ (Eph. 2:8-9)?

One would expect the genuine believer in Christ to “grow in the grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Lord Jesus Christ,” (2 Peter 3:18). What, however, is left for him to do for “final salvation?” It is my hope and prayer that as his series continues Dr. Doran will clarify his meaning and repudiate the works based salvation such as Piper articulates above. I hope he will stake out the biblical high-ground for the Gospel of grace.

If, on the other hand, Brother Doran is going to drive a stake in the ground for the Lordship Salvation interpretation of the Gospel, then by all means I trust he won’t be vague about it. If he is going to make acceptance of the Lordship gospel the test for fellowship, I trust he won’t begin by making the mistake of equating the reductionist Crossless Gospel heresy of Zane Hodges, Bob Wilkin and GES as the view of every non-Lordship Salvation person. Separation from the GES men has long since taken place.

If Dave Doran believes Lordship Salvation is the Gospel, then in his series I am hopeful he will say so in unvarnished terms. If he believes submission to the Lordship of Christ is necessary for the reception of the gift of eternal life then may he say so. If Doran, like Piper, considers “…real, lived-out obedience to the will of God as necessary for final salvation,” then I am hopeful he will say so in such a way there is no mistake about it or repudiate Piper’s statement.

IMO, the true crux of the Gospel controversy in the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) community is over the requirement to become a Christian, i.e. how to be born again, much more so than what should be the natural result of a genuine conversion.

“The message of faith only and the message of faith plus commitment of life cannot both be the gospel; therefore, one of them is a false gospel and comes under the curse of perverting the gospel or preaching another gospel (Gal. 1:6-9), and this is a very serious matter.” (Dr. Charles Ryrie: Balancing the Christian Life, p. 170.)

If we come to find Dave Doran believes Lordship Salvation is the Gospel will he call for “separation” from Independent Fundamental Baptists who reject the Lordship interpretation of the Gospel?

It is no secret that among the Calvinists in IFB circles there is a growing affinity for closing ranks with the so-called “conservative” evangelicalism- its stars and fellowships. IFB men who are Calvinistic in their theology have increasingly moved toward and are embracing the “conservative” evangelicals. They are primarily rallying around a common bond, which is Calvinism and Lordship Salvation. Is it possible Dave Doran’s series signals the time has come when Reformed IFB men will make the leap; separate from IFB men who reject Calvinistic soteriology and/or Lordship Salvation and fully embrace the “conservative” evangelicals?

Brother Doran’s series The Gospel & Separation is not yet complete. We will continue to read the series with great interest to see how he defines his terms makes the application and what impact, if any, the series will have on the IFB community.


LM

*David M. Doran, D.Min. is Senior Pastor of Inter-City Baptist Church; President, Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary; Professor of Pastoral Theology.

UPDATE (10/29/09):
In the thread below one guest remarked, “I do think a direct question to Dr. Doran would result in a clarification.”

 My reply follows.

That would be the ideal, but Dr. Doran does not allow for questions or comments at his blog where his series appears. 

Yesterday, however, Dr. Doran posted a new article at his blog. It is his reaction to the legitimate questions he has read here raised by myself and select others.

When we are going to discuss the Gospel we need to be biblically precise in our terms. I am gratified Dr. Doran has felt the need to apply more biblical precision to some of his statements from Part 3 of his series, which I quote…above. Later I will have some reaction, most likely in a new main page article, to the clarifying article by Dr. Doran.

Please continue to- The Gospel & Separation: Interim Discussion and Primer for the Balance