Preservation of believers, not perseverance of the saints, is the view taught by God’s Word and is consistent with the gospel of salvation by grace.
The argument for perseverance
Perseverance is taught by differing theological systems. The Reformed Calvinist position (It is the P in their TULIP) argues that since man is totally unable to respond, individuals must be unconditionally elected and they alone receive the benefits of Christ’s atonement through God’s irresistible grace. The faith that must be given to man as divine enablement to believe also becomes the power to keep one in the faith to the end of life. At the other end of the theological spectrum, the Arminian system argues that a person is saved only as long as he perseveres.
In both systems, works are necessary to prove and validate one’s salvation. Without enduring good works, no one is finally saved. In both systems, assurance is temporary, that is, one can be sure of salvation only as long as he perseveres. Many in both systems admit that absolute assurance is impossible because no one can predict the future.
The arguments against perseverance
Perseverance depends on faith as a special power given to man, but the Scripture does not accommodate this thought at all. Faith is our response to God’s promise of eternal life. In Ephesians 2:8, the gift is not faith but salvation by grace (See GraceNotes No. 48).
In spite of Ephesians 2:9 that says we are saved “not by works,” perseverance makes works a necessary proof, and thus a condition of salvation. This is inconsistent with being saved by grace. Romans 4:4-5 makes the contrast clearly, “Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness” (See also Rom. 11:6; Titus 3:5). There is only one condition for salvation by grace, and that is to believe (Rom. 3:22).
When a person believes, he is convinced of God’s promise to give eternal life, to justify, or redeem (There are a number of terms used for eternal salvation). Assurance can be absolute because God’s promise is absolute: “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” (John 5:24). Romans 4:16 makes it clear that our assurance of receiving God’s promise has to be through faith in God’s grace (not our performance). Abraham was credited with righteousness because he was “fully convinced that what [God] had promised, He was also able to perform” (Rom. 4:21).
If eternal salvation was dependent on our performance enduring to the end of life, then no one couldbe sure about salvation until life has ended. Yet the Bible has clear indications of genuine believers who did not endure in faith and works to the end of their lives (Acts 5:1-11; 1 Cor. 11:30; 1 John 5:16). In 2 Timothy 2:12-13 it is implied that it is possible for believers not to endure: “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.” Endurance is rewarded with reigning, but denial of the Lord is met with denial of that reward. Even if we are faithless (from Greek apisteo , literally, “be without faith” or “disbelieve”) God will be faithful to His promise of making us alive with Him (verse 11).
The preferred term, preservation
Preservation is a term that speaks of our security of salvation. Unlike perseverance that emphasizes our performance, preservation emphasizes God’s promise to give us eternal life (John 3:16), God’s purpose to see us conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:29), and God’s power to let nothing separate us from His love (Rom. 8:31-39). If God preserves us in our salvation, we can be absolutely sure we are saved forever, something that is impossible in perseverance.
Preservation does not negate the true biblical concept of perseverance, which understands that perseverance is not for salvation but for rewards, as seen above in 2 Timothy 2:11-13. In 1 Corinthians 9:27 Paul was expressing the possibility of losing not his salvation, but his reward, when he wrote: “But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified” (from Greek adokimos, which never refers to hell or loss of salvation in the New Testament). A major theme of Hebrews is the importance of the Christian to endure, or persevere (Heb. 6:11-12; 10:36; 12:1).
The practical applications
When we separate perseverance from salvation by grace through faith, the New Testament has many rich applications for Christians:
1. We are exhorted to persevere in faithful living and service (1 Tim. 6:11; Heb. 10:36; 12:1; 2 Peter 1:6).Conclusion
2. We are rewarded for persevering not with salvation, but with temporal and eternal blessings (Rom. 5:3-4; Col. 1:21-23; 2 Tim. 4:7-8; Heb. 11; James 1:12; 5:11; 2 Peter 1:8-11).
3. We can be absolutely sure of our salvation since it does not depend on our performance but on God who preserves us (Rom. 8:28-39; 1 John 5:11-13).
4. We are motivated to serve God and remain faithful by His forgiving grace and His unconditional love (Rom. 12:1; Titus 2:11-12).
5. We can counsel other believers on the basis of who they are (true Christians), not on the basis of whether they are saved or not.
Preservation, not perseverance, is the promise of the gospel. If this is misunderstood, the gospel of grace is nullified. Salvation is not based on our persevering performance, but on God’s preserving promise, purpose, and power.
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GraceNotes is a concise quarterly Bible study on the important issues related to salvation by grace and living by grace. They are designed for downloading (pdf available) and copying so they can be used in ministry. No permission is required if they are distributed unedited at no charge. You can receive new GraceNotes by subscribing to our free quarterly GraceLife newsletter.
Hi Lou, here's a shorter version. Maybe blogger will take this one.
ReplyDeleteEarlier this week I was listening to MacArthur's "Grace To You" broadcast and he spent a fair bit of time talking about "Perseverance of the Saints." The broadcast was on 12 Oct 2010, in case anyone wants to check my representation of the man's teaching.
He starts out defining it this way;
In other words, we believe that the saints will never abandon their faith, they will always persevere, believing God through every trial.
He goes on to say And the true saints will always persevere.
His support of his view of Perseverance is based on Eternal Security, and the passages that support this true doctrine. He actually makes a very strong argument for Eternal Security and then the turn around begins.
Strong language, folks, about eternal security. But may I hasten to say there's another side to this? There's another side to this. You say, "What's the other side?" The other side is that we are not only kept by God but from the human viewpoint, we also persevere
In other words, you aren't kept by God if you chuck your faith in the midst of a trial.
You're secure because of the covenant faithfulness of God, but you're not secure without exercising perseverance. The means then of eternal security is wrought through the power of the Spirit energizing the true believer to endure in faith through all trials.
And there you have it. While the Apostle Paul says we're secure in Christ because of His faithfulness, because we have been baptised into His death and resurrection, and because we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit - MacArthur says we are secure because we've been empowered to persevere.
After making such a strong case for Eternal Security, and then linking it to Perseverance MacArthur then destroys the believer's assurance.
You say, "Well, what happens when someone doesn't...doesn't endure?" Very simple, 1 John 2:19, "They went out from us because they never were...what?...of us." They failed the test of genuine faith. No trial then, beloved, get it...no trial is so great that it could sever you from your Lord if you're faith is genuine.
Now remember at the beginning of the broadcast that he defined Perseverance as continuing to have faith? Check out what this becomes now (emphasis added)
So eternal security is not enough alone. It is not a question of once saved-always saved, no matter what you believe and no matter what you do. No. If there's not endurance, if you don't pass the test and hold on to the Lord, if you're not continuing to love and obey Him through every trial of life, then you give evidence of having an illegitimate faith.
So a person could have faith, be faithful for 79 of their 80 years but in that last year not obey and this would prove that the previous 79 years were actually "illegitimate"!
He states And having persevered, look back and say, "Yes, I know I belong to the Lord.
So why take the "Good Christian Test" that they turn 1Jn into anyway? It doesn't matter if you're doing good right now... you might not tomorrow!! Don't count on your salvation folks! Your faith just might be illegitimate.
This is pure evil.
When Paul talked about a vain faith in 1Cor 15, he said the only illegitimate or vain faith would be one in Christ if He had not actually risen from the dead. Not if you weren’t faithful enough, or didn’t believe long enough...
Kev
Kev:
ReplyDeleteWhat your showing boils down to this, Lordship Salvation conditions salvation (justification) on a lost man’s promise to perform to behave as a disciple and then he is told that to keep his (eternal) salvation he must perform as a disciple throughout his lifetime.
That is an oversimplification, blunt term explanation, but that is it. Believe means behave in their theology. This goes right back LS on the so-called “Final Salvation” debate.
“There is no doubt that Jesus saw a measure of real, lived-out obedience to the will of God as necessary for final salvation.” (John Piper, What Jesus Demands From the World, p. 160).
“Endurance in faith is a condition for future salvation. Only those who endure in faith will be saved for eternity.” (R. C. Sproul, Grace Unknown, p. 198.)
Lou
I want to understand what you are saying: you believe that God will preserve His children but it does not necessarily have to show up in the believers life?
ReplyDeleteI think the idea is that if you deny Christ you were a tare among the wheat....DENY not disobey....Annanias lied to the Holy Spirt but he did not DENY that he belonged to the Lord.....there is a sin unto death right? But again that does not mean that you can DENY Christ and not be denied by Him....that is in scripture....PS If John Macarthur said this: "if you're not continuing to love and obey Him through every trial of life, then you give evidence of having an illegitimate faith"
and by that he means that you are lost then i would have to disagree but if he means "hey check yourself, you know the Lord, trust in Him bc if you dont then that could be a bad sign (it would definetly be sin) ok I can agree with that...can you?
Hello Blessed,
ReplyDeleteJn 3:36 is definitely about "disbelieving" and not about failing to live obediently. We disbelieve so long as we continue to say that the testimony of Christ is false. So yes that is to "deny" Christ. The Apostle John writes that this is calling God a liar.
John MacArthur clearly does say that one who fails to live an obedient life is unsaved. The faith the person thought they had was illegitimate.
MacArthur's purpose is not to encourage Believers to respond properly to Discipleship, but to tell sinners they must become Disciples and succeed at Discipleship (to some undetermined level) in order to be "finally saved in the end."
You cannot check for the presence of Christ by evaluating sin. For the one born of God cannot sin. That is the nature of Christ cannot sin. It doesn't sin less than the Flesh, it does not sin at all. It does not "fall into sin instead of diving in" it cannot sin at all.
Christians still have the old man, the fleshy nature, the sinful nature that we have always had and will have until we are resurrected when we will be as Christ is.
How do you check to see if you're saved or not? Is God a liar? Did Christ die for our sins, in accordance with the Scriptures? Was He buried and then risen on the third day according to the Scriptures?
That's what the Scripture says. If you lack assurance it is because you don't really believe Christ paid the full price - not because you realize you're still less than living up to Who He is.
I mean this to encourage you. It seems like you want to see the best in MacArthur. That's a lovely way to be, sincerely, but we are supposed to examine the Scriptures to see if what he says is true or not. We can still love the man, and want the best for him, but what he says is either true or it is false.
Kev
Kev/Blessed:
ReplyDeleteThe following is from my book. I think it will bolster what you (Kev) posted above.
LM
How Does the Bible Define “Believe?”
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
To better understand how the word “believe” from Romans 10:9 cannot support the Lordship interpretation of the gospel, an initial look at John 3:36 is necessary.
The active word in this verse is believe. If a man will believe on the Son (of God), he will have eternal life. John MacArthur cites this verse in a footnote on p. 33 of The Gospel According to Jesus. The meaning of the verse, however, is distorted to favor the Lordship Salvation view. He cites the verse as follows: “He who does not obey the Son shall not see life. . . .”
John MacArthur chooses John 3:36 to support the Lordship gospel by citing the second usage of the word “believeth” (from the KJV) as “obey,” but he does not cite the first half of John 3:36, which is the key to the context. The first usage of the word “believeth” in John 3:36 is identical to the word “believe” in the Romans 10:9 passage. While the word “believeth not”, (apeithon) is a different word than the first usage of the word “believeth,” and can mean “obey” in some cases, the context of John 3:36(a) demands unbelief, not disobedience. The correct meaning of “believeth not” is to refuse or withhold belief. Or, we could say that disobedience in itself is unbelief. Taking the whole context into consideration, the second part of the verse cannot be referring to a person’s actions, but rather to his unbelief.
In reference to John 3:36, Spiros T. Zodhiates defines Apeitheia thus: “from the negative a (1), without, and peitho (3982), to persuade. Not to believe, to disbelieve implying disobedience; also to disobey as through unbelief.”
Obey is a legitimate translation of believe, but to render it thus in this verse does not clearly convey what sort of obedience is required. Refusing to believe in Christ is, in essence, disobedience.
Lordship teachers say that Romans 10:9 explicitly demands personal submission from a lost man; a belief in and acceptance of the lordship of Christ as Ruler of his own life in order to be saved.
(Some Greek words that appear in the book are omitted because Blogger will not post the Greek.)
I appreciate your generosity on my disagreement with Macarthur....there are some of us that agree AND disagree with him on things and that do not get defensive when he is questioned....I have not always been that way :)BUT
ReplyDeleteJohn Macarthur and Lordship aside my question was:
you believe that God will preserve His children but it does not necessarily have to show up in the believers life?
You do see the wheat and the tares and the false converts correct? You see the false teachers in Titus that profess Christ but by their deeds they deny Him?
I would say this: I KNOW that I belong to Christ bc His Spirit bears witness with my spirit and tells me that is true...I know Him and I follow His voice....what I do not know is if you are His....I will never know that for sure bc I cannot be assured of YOUR salvation..all I can do is look at scripture that speaks about the fruit of a christian and the difference between the lives of believers and unbbelievers..do you not see a difference is those lives? It is crystal clear that you do not follow Macarthur but what I am not clear on is exactly what YOU DO believe about the many that profess Christ but by their deeds they deny Him? What do you believe about the life of one that is saved?
And just for the record, are you saying that Annanias was lost?
Blessed,
ReplyDeleteI do not believe that we can know who is saved bassed on their lives. I've known people who worked in the Church, ministered to people, taught people... and so on their whole lives but when they were facing death finally admitted that they had never actually trusted God with their own salvation.
Likewise we see in the scriptures that none guessed that it was Judas who would betray the Lord.
The Scriptures do not say that because one is saved that they will have a changed life. They clearly say that because one is saved they ought submit and grow in dicipleship which will result in a changed life.
If the change were automatic there would be no need to exhort Christians to submit to discipleship.. they just would.... most of the New Testament therefore would be wasted pages.
I believe that there are false converts, but because they have never heard and believed the Gospel. They have been told other things as though they were the Gospel. Some of these will have heard that they must submit to be saved, and when they face the Lord they will say that they have called Him Lord, and done works in His name... and He will send them to the Lake of Fire.
Others will be there saying that they are good enough... and so on.
Christians deny God by their deeds all too often.
I do not believe that Ananais and Sapphira were unsaved. I believe they were saved Christians who had sin great enough that God took them out of the world. Because of such sin many among you are sick, and some have fallen asleep...
Just because someone is a false teacher does not mean they are not saved.
I do not consider John MacArthur to be unsaved, but I do believe many of his followers are. John has heard and believed the Gospel, and has since gone on to pervert it. Those that only hear his false Lordship Salvation gospel are not saved, until they hear and receive the true Gospel of Jesus Christ as the Apostle Paul declared in 1Cor 15.
Your question you believe that God will preserve His children but it does not necessarily have to show up in the believers life?
Can be directly answered because I do not at all believe that God's method of preservation is by reformation.
This flesh we are in right now WILL BURN with the rest of the fallen Creation. We will be resurrected into new bodies and we will have new natures. The old man is judged by the Cross and must be put to death.
We are not saved by reformation, we are not kept by reformation, we have no future hope in reformation. We have only hope that we are baptized into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
That is how we are preserved. We are IN Him, and thus cannot be lost. It has nothing to do with our behaviour.
As a Christian submits to discipleship they will evidence this submission in their life.
I don't know how to be clearer, I hope this is helpful.
Kev
I agree with much of what you said above... on Ananais and Sapphira we could agree that we dont know if they were lost or saved because we cannot know if another person is saved or not, I am willing to believe they were but just as open to say they may not have been, of course we agree that reformation does not save nor keep you....what I guess we wouldn't agree on is that Jesus Christ can be your Lord and Saviour and your life not be a reflection in some way....I dont mean moralism I mean love for Jesus Christ, confession and repentance and prayer and submission and love for the brethren and by fruit of the Spirit..Christ says quite a few "if this then this" statements....He says you will be known by your fruit, He says that if you love Him you WILL keep His commandments...He says that His sheep hear His voice and WILL not follow another.....you said : Christians deny God by their deeds all too often. and to that I say AMEN....non christians do that as well, the difference is that the Christian lives a life of confession and repentance....right?
ReplyDeleteBlessed,
ReplyDeleteYou've written just one paragraph but made many statements using a lot of terminology. It would be impossible for me to answer each statement clearly and properly.
Seeing as I don't know how you define terms such as "repentance" I cannot accurately respond to your questions.
Based on what we have discussed so far, I WHOLE HEARTEDLY suggest you read Lou's book. If only so that you can sympathise with why I can't answer your short post.
About Ananais and Sapphira, we could fill many long posts with questions and such but I will offer this.
Paul makes no bones about stating that people are saved in each of his letters. I believe we can know that someone is saved, based on their confession of faith in the Christ of the Gospel.
If they have had it properly presented to them, they can accurately articulate it back, and claim to trust that this is their faith... then I have to agree with God that such a person is saved.
This is not easy believe-ism. It is simply taking God at His Word.
OH one other thing. Jesus Christ is Lord of Heaven and Earth. He is Lord of each and every sinner on Earth, and in Hell. Their lives do not bare witness to His Lordship in their actions. I know this may seem like a cheesy way to answer you, but give it some consideration.
Kev
Blessed, I didn't answer about Ananais and Sapphira! Sorry.
ReplyDeleteI believe they were saved for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it makes no sense for Peter to single out sinners and get them to explain why they are lying to the Holy Spirit. Why would he expect them to do otherwise?
There are a number of other reasons from the chapter, but I encourage you to seek them out.
Kev
I did have one more thought after posting before and I ask it bc of what you just said: you say: they can accurately articulate it back, and claim to trust that this is their faith... then I have to agree with God that such a person is saved.
ReplyDeleteMy thought was how could John Macarthur be saved by believing the correct gospel message but then turn around and not even know what that message is? He must not know it if he is presenting a false one? And Paul says that anyone including himself(meaning that if he came back in say five years with another gospel) they are to be accursed? not assured?
Thank you for answering all that you have and I understand why you are answering the way that you are.
If you can give me further thought on the false teacher being saved I would appreciate it but if not I understand that as well.....THANKS!
Blessed (Do you have a name I can address you as?):
ReplyDelete“My thought was how could John MacArthur be saved by believing the correct gospel message but then turn around and not even know what that message is?”
I can help you with this. MacArthur saw what were abysmal examples of professing Christians when he was in college. That lead him to rethink, then change his mind about what the Gospel is and eventually redefine it into Lordship Salvation.
He looked at behavior and then decided that behavior (in the form of commitment to and then the performance of), over believing was the primary key to eternal life (justification).
That is a big paraphrase, but that is essentially his history.
LM
FROM (Blessed) MELISSA...
ReplyDeleteHi Lou!
So do you think he apostasized from the faith? Or that he possibly was never saved to begin with?
Melissa
Sorry Melissa, I accidentally deleted your comment.
Hello Melissa:
ReplyDeleteIn brief, as I have always maintained, I believe JMac is a saved man who has gone horribly wrong in his understanding of the nature of saving faith.
In my book I included a statement by Dr. Ernest Pickering from his review of The Gospel According To Jesus. Pickering wrote,
“John MacArthur is a sincere servant of the Lord, of that we have no doubt.... We believe in his advocacy of the so-called lordship salvation he is wrong. He desperately desires to see holiness, lasting fruit, and continuing faithfulness in the lives of Christian people. This reviewer and we believe all sincere church leaders desire the same.... But the remedy for this condition is not found in changing the terms of the gospel.”
Lou
Hi Lou,
ReplyDeleteI hope you dont mind me posting this here but Kevl said something in a response to me that just went against what I get from reading scripture (not from a Lordship view but from reading) and I wanted to address it and wasnt sure if it would be right to post it on his blog since the comment was made here.....he said:
The Scriptures do not say that because one is saved that they will have a changed life.
So I have pondered this because when I read I see changed lives from those that believe in the Lord...in the Old Testament it is very clear that those chosen of the Lord are to be the called out one, holy, seperate...a different kind of people...then in the new people are changed when they believe on Christ...He heals, He raises from the dead, their hearts and minds are changed (repentance) and if those things are changed then they will manifest in some way....2 Cor 5:17 speaks of a new creature, therefore, if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold all things have become new....Romans 6 speaks of the change made, we are no longer slaves to sin, yes we sin, but no we arent slaves to it and that constitutes a change...Eph 4:24 speaks of putting on the new man...these things do not seem like suggestions but like things that God will do adn that you are responsible to do as well...like when Paul gives a list of characteristics that you are to add to yourself and then says that God is doing it....even when we are faithless to do what we are told He is faithful to be produces the fruit the Spirit in our lives to SOME degree and I do not hold that it is to the dregree that lordship or JMac would say but to say that scripture doesnt promise a change is not what I read at all...could it be that you just mean not as much or not the same as lordship may teach? I guess I dont see where Jesus says there are christians, disciples and lost people...I see two...lost and saved and yes, there are some disobedient there are some that never grow but there is still a change in their heart and mind...is that fair to say? Putting aside easy believism and lordship do you see this as well?
Hi Blessed,
ReplyDeleteForgive me for being short, do not read bluntness into my post.
The argument you make in your last is not actually based on what the Scriptures say, but on the implications you draw from what you have read.
For example, instead of quoting Scripture you say "it is very clear that..." and "people are changed when they believe on Christ... He heals, He raises from the dead..."
These are your readings of the Scriptures, and tied to your argument they are about the implications you are drawing, not what the Text says explicitly.
Another example, you say "even when we are faithless to do what we are told He is faithful to be produces the fruit the Spirit in our lives to SOME degree"
However, here is what Scripture says
2Tim 2:8-13
8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
This is about God's power with the Gospel to save people, and how Paul is enduring suffering for the sake of preaching the Gospel. It is not at all about God producing fruit in the lives of people.
If I don't read what the Text says your argument reads very strong, and convincing. However, you make the same mistake that MacArthur does - prooftexting.
Again, please do not think I'm berating you. I truly ache to help you.
I do not at all deny that Scripture calls believers to submit to Discipleship and therefore live changed lives. Of course it does!
The all important difference between what LS, and what you are implying, and what the Scriptures say is that it is not automatic.
The Bible instructs Believers to submit, be holy, be changed, live right,.....
We are given SO MUCH instruction, exhortation, warning, discipline because we NEED IT.
Believers do not automatically live changed lives. Believers who submit to Discipleship will live changed lives as they grow. One's life speaks of one's level of maturity, not whether they are saved or not.
You can look like a mature Christian, even if you're not a Christian at all. You can look like a carnal sinner, even if you are a saved Christian. As has been pointed out there were disciples of Christ who were not saved, and the Bible is full of saved people who do terrible things. Behavior is not an accurate indicator of salvation.
I hope this helps,
Kev
Hi Blessed,
ReplyDeleteI see that I have not directly answered your question clearly with a simple answer. It bugs me when people do not clearly answer my questions. So I'll offer this. I trust you will read the explanation I gave in my last in order to understand my answer here.
You asked I see two...lost and saved and yes, there are some disobedient there are some that never grow but there is still a change in their heart and mind...is that fair to say? Putting aside easy believism and lordship do you see this as well?
It is not fair to say. There is no change in their heart at Salvation. There is an addition of the New Nature of Jesus Christ, so we have an "addition" but the old heart is still just as evil as it ever ways. There is now an "option" to live differently.
I do not see reformation as a result of Salvation alone.
Reformation can be the result of these:
Salvation + Discipleship = reformation as result of self effort and Holy Spirit crafting.
Religion + Discipleship = reformation (self effort + condemnation)
Peer Pressure and/or Legal Pressure = reformation (self effort and condemnation)
Again, please see additional explanation in my last.
Kev