tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post7284523381429135438..comments2024-02-27T03:28:22.684-06:00Comments on In Defense of the Gospel: Heresy of the “Crossless” Gospel: Verified and Affirmed!Lou Martuneachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-21343771147776946472008-05-26T21:11:00.000-05:002008-05-26T21:11:00.000-05:00Lou,I agree. A strong stand for the Glorious Gosp...Lou,<BR/><BR/>I agree. A strong stand <B>for </B> the Glorious Gospel requires a strong stand <B>against</B> a gutted gospel.<BR/><BR/>JPJonathan Perreaulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03701064430800312710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-22572680021479213232008-05-26T07:55:00.000-05:002008-05-26T07:55:00.000-05:00Amen...so true Lou. Very well said.Grace upon grac...Amen...so true Lou. Very well said.<BR/><BR/>Grace upon grace,<BR/><BR/>BrianOnly Lookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16074543462279905793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-75344955378213943482008-05-25T23:35:00.000-05:002008-05-25T23:35:00.000-05:00Jon/All:One of my primary goals of late is to do a...Jon/All:<BR/><BR/>One of my primary goals of late is to do all I can to make sure a broad cross section of evangelcials understand that there are two factions in the Free Grace community.<BR/><BR/>I've have had a great deal of success helping various men and groups come to understand that GES speaks only for its shrinking cell of members.<BR/><BR/>Those of us who have not fallen into the trap of the Hodges, Wilkin, GES <I>Crossless</I> gospel do NOT want to be perceived as one and the same with the GES extremist faction.<BR/><BR/>Especially in the discussons about <I>Lordship Salvation</I>, if we are thought to becomng to the debate with the <I><B>ReDefined</B></I> FG theology presuppositions of GES we have our doctrinal legs cut out from under us before we get started.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-77514496710605856692008-05-25T22:00:00.000-05:002008-05-25T22:00:00.000-05:00All:When reformed theology and free grace theology...All:<BR/><BR/>When reformed theology and free grace theology unite against extreme free grace (GES), it gives a clue to how extreme they really are! Lord willing, it won't be long before they are extremely isolated.<BR/><BR/>JPJonathan Perreaulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03701064430800312710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-40973885073842889532008-05-25T08:21:00.000-05:002008-05-25T08:21:00.000-05:00Amen brethren. As a FG believer with calvanistic l...Amen brethren. As a FG believer with calvanistic leanings I recognize the importance of what you and Mark realize here as well and in spite of differances in some areas with Mark I am heartened that he is placing truth above interpersonal relations and coming out boldly on this side of the cross realizing that this heresy should not be given even the remotest attention. Praise the Lord.<BR/><BR/>Grace upon grace,<BR/><BR/>BrianOnly Lookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16074543462279905793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-73680435148446242562008-05-24T15:21:00.000-05:002008-05-24T15:21:00.000-05:00Hi Mark:I saw your article and link to Moorhead. ...Hi Mark:<BR/><BR/>I saw your article and link to Moorhead. I appreciate your weighing in to help thwart the extremist heresy of the GES faction of the FG community.<BR/><BR/>I posted a note at your blog as well about the distinction between the extreme FG of GES and those who reject their aberrant views.<BR/><BR/>I would like nothing more than to see GES and its advocates isolated and become irrelevant, which is happening as we speak.<BR/><BR/>Take care,<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-82577655322410856192008-05-24T14:54:00.000-05:002008-05-24T14:54:00.000-05:00It is true that I am LS/Calvinist, however I wish ...It is true that I am LS/Calvinist, however I wish to join with you in an effortm to isolate and strangle the GES influence in the blosphere. I have linked to Moorhead's post on my blog as a sort of solidarity.<BR/><BR/>Markmark piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13882538938829765324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-15245999888373751532008-05-23T14:36:00.000-05:002008-05-23T14:36:00.000-05:00Please visit Jon Perreault's blog Free Grace, Free...Please visit Jon Perreault's blog <I><B>Free Grace, Free Speech</B></I> for his article, <I><B><A HREF="http://freegracefreespeech.blogspot.com/2008/05/heretic-in-antonio.html" REL="nofollow">The Heretic in Antonio</A></B></I><BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-75514078059647584762008-05-23T11:27:00.000-05:002008-05-23T11:27:00.000-05:00Lou:Thanks for this information. This would be un...Lou:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this information. This would be unbelievable except for the fact that Antonio has already shipwrecked his faith and seared his conscience. In contrast to Antonio's affirmation, such a woman described above is definately not saved because she has believed in Allah (who goes by the name "Jesus"), not Christ. Such a false deity is "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:3-4) and such preaching is "another gospel" (Gal. 1:6-9).<BR/><BR/>JPJonathan Perreaulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03701064430800312710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-90818764530007433372008-05-23T09:15:00.000-05:002008-05-23T09:15:00.000-05:00Jazzy Cat at Head of the Moor first posted the fol...Jazzy Cat at Head of the Moor first posted the following. I believe it further substantiates the gross heresy of the Crossless gospel as articulated by Antonio da Rosa.<BR/><BR/>On July 18, 2007 Jeremy Myers published an article at his <I><B>Till He Comes</B></I> blog titled, <I><B><A HREF="http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/07/18/you-be-the-judgenot-really" REL="nofollow">You be the Judge (not really!)</A></B></I><BR/><BR/>Once you read this there is no way Antonio can claim in good conscience agreement with the “<I>obvious meaning</I>” of the FGA’s Covenant.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Myers asked if a person believing the following list were really saved:<BR/>1. Jesus is God…i.e., He is fully divine. <BR/>2. Jesus is fully human, yet without sin. (Also, He was born of a virgin).<BR/>3. Jesus died on the cross and rose again from the dead three days later.<BR/>4. She is a sinner and needed Jesus to pay for her sin through His death on the cross so that she could gain His righteousness.<BR/>5. Simply by faith in Jesus, she has everlasting life which can never be lost.<BR/><BR/>So far so good, but she also believed the following<BR/><BR/>6. Humans are “divine like Jesus, but to a lesser degree” because we sin.<BR/>7. God is Allah, the same god the Muslims worship.<BR/>8. The Trinity is fiction…there is only one God.<BR/>9. The Koran is inspired by God and is on equal footing with the Bible. Since the two are in conflict on some teachings, neither can be taken literally.<BR/><BR/>Antonio answered as follows:<BR/><BR/><I>Yes. <BR/><BR/>If she in fact believes #5 then she has done all that is theologically required for eternal life.<BR/><BR/>There can be so many differenct variations of misconceptions about religious belief. If we insist in our evangelism that the hearers subscribe to all our orthodox doctrines and in the full understanding that we subjectively assert must be understood for salvation, we can invalidate for the potential convert the simple act of faith which does bring eternal life.<BR/><BR/>Such practice is an endless regress and slippery slope that can in fact lead to innumberable conditions for eternal life, for it is not enough to assent to the doctrine, one must also have a detailed full understanding of various concepts that need to be defined, and these definitions often need further clarification and qualification, and on and on and on.<BR/><BR/>When one believes on Christ for eternal life, they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. In time, through His ministry and the Word, and proper guidance from one that is spiritual, this woman can move on to real spiritual growth and maturity. She can be lead to the truth and these misconceptions can be corrected.<BR/><BR/>My thoughts!<BR/><BR/>Antonio</I>Lou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-88357164656050536132008-05-23T08:27:00.000-05:002008-05-23T08:27:00.000-05:00JP, I appreciate your observations of how Antonio ...JP, I appreciate your observations of how Antonio and his distortion of FG discredits the FGA. I am not personally surprised how he can claim agreement with item #2 of the FGA covenant as it seems he views everything after "The sole means of receiving the free gift of eternal life is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ..." as nothing more than a list of "unique identifiers". To Antonio, #2 may just as well say "The sole means of receiving the free gift of eternal life is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who walked on water, raised Lazarus from the dead, and healed a blind man through spreading spit and mud in his eye." <BR/><BR/>FGA Cov #3 seems much more problematic for him. #3 says "Faith is a personal response, apart from our works, whereby we are persuaded that the finished work of Jesus Christ has delivered us from condemnation and guaranteed our eternal life." Antonio claims he can agree to this but I think he'd really have to dodge the "obvious meaning". In light that #3 clarifies #2, your observation on #2 is contextually dead on.<BR/><BR/>StephenOrangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13385339200643211924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-82853636682283496712008-05-23T04:50:00.000-05:002008-05-23T04:50:00.000-05:00BTW:John MacArthur uses the label, “No-Lordship” i...BTW:<BR/><BR/>John MacArthur uses the label, “<I>No-Lordship</I>” in regard to those who reject the <I>Lordship Salvation</I> view of the Gospel. (Not busting or derailing the thread.)<BR/><BR/>For the record, I reject the “<I>surrender, submission and commitment</I>” for the reception of eternal life aspect of <I>LS</I>. What should be the natural result of a genuine conversion, YES; for the reception of salvation, No.<BR/><BR/>I propose, however, that “<I>No-Lordship</I>” is a fair and accurate label, if it is being used in reference to the extremist faction of the FG movement, that of the GES and its <I>Crossless/Deityless</I> advocates, such as Antonio da Rosa.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-76734266337999519232008-05-23T04:11:00.000-05:002008-05-23T04:11:00.000-05:00Men:Antonio has posted again at Head of the Moor. ...Men:<BR/><BR/>Antonio has posted again at <I><B>Head of the Moor</B></I>. I am going to return to deal with his heresy.<BR/><BR/>I invite the <I><B>Defense</B></I> team to join me.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-16670821158734544002008-05-23T04:09:00.000-05:002008-05-23T04:09:00.000-05:00Jon:For the reasons you mention above it is crucia...Jon:<BR/><BR/>For the reasons you mention above it is crucial we keep others informed that Antonio does NOT speak for any one but himself and the heretical views of GES.<BR/><BR/>He is not just remaining in the FGA outside of good conscience; he is outright dishonest when he claims to assent to the obvious meaning of FGA's covenant.<BR/><BR/>If it is within the guidelines of FGA's rules, the leadership should dismiss him from membership. Antonio's writing and behavior is a blight and an open sore on the membership roles of the FGA.<BR/><BR/>IMO, one of the only reasons Antonio and Stephen R. Lewis remain in FGA, when they clearly are at odds with the covenant, is to infiltrate FGA for the purpose of taking it over or taking it down to protect GES. They are playing politics for the sake of their <I>Crossless</I> heresy and its chief advocates: Hodges and Wilkin.<BR/><BR/>In time, however: Antonio first will go the way of plagiarist Jim Johnson and resign, or be forcibly removed from FGA's membership.<BR/><BR/>I know that is blunt but a fact. His conscience has been seared by his heresy, and his poor behavior, which he is infamous for, further exasperates the problem.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LouLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-40425357733194817422008-05-22T23:39:00.000-05:002008-05-22T23:39:00.000-05:00Lou,I was just reading a comment left on "Head of ...Lou,<BR/><BR/>I was just reading a comment left on "Head of the Moor" that illustrates Antonio's discrediting influence. Notice this statement by <I>msc</I>:<BR/><BR/>"It occured to me as I read thru the questions posed to Antonio and his evasive responses as well as his apparently reductionistic view of Jesus that he sounds very much like those within the emergent/ emerging camp. Giving content to who Jesus actually is and what Jesus accomplished in tantamount to Modernist/ Enlightenment mistakes. Belief in Jesus must be stripped of doctrinal musings. He can be re-imagined in any form that suits the believer and his own personal context. IOW, Jesus is free to be radically contextualized. It matters not what your personal persuasion is about who he is. He does not require that we pin down who he is or what he has done. Propositions are distracting and ultimately destructive to faith. Faith, however one defines it, in Jesus, however one defines him, is all that is important to be a follower of [or believer in] Jesus. <B>FG is sounding an aweful lot like EC.</B>" (bold added)<BR/><BR/>JPJonathan Perreaulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03701064430800312710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-59789134344031572542008-05-22T23:18:00.000-05:002008-05-22T23:18:00.000-05:00Lou:Both you and Jonathan Moorhead have done a won...Lou:<BR/><BR/>Both you and Jonathan Moorhead have done a wonderful job "contending for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3) against Antonio's false gospel.<BR/><BR/>In light of Antonio's egregious heresies, I feel we need to petition the Free Grace Alliance (FGA) to revoke Antonio's membership. It is quite "obvious" that he does not agree with the FGA doctrinal affirmations, particularly this one:<BR/><BR/><B>FGA Affirmation #2:</B><BR/><BR/>"<I>The sole means of receiving the free gift of eternal life is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God</I>, whose substitutionary death on the cross fully satisfied the requirement for our justification." (italics added)<BR/><BR/><B>Antonio da Rosa Heresy #2:</B><BR/><BR/>"If someone asks me point blank, do I believe that one must believe that Jesus is God in order to go to heaven, I would say ‘NO!’” (Believe Christ’s Promise and You are Saved No Matter What Misconception You Hold, May 2006)<BR/><BR/><I>This is a matter of no small consequence!</I> Even Lordship salvation proponents like Jonathan Moorhead feel Antonio is preaching heresy! Since Antonio is a member of the FGA, this highly discredits the FGA. <BR/><BR/>JPJonathan Perreaulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03701064430800312710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-79303566902284237782008-05-22T21:18:00.000-05:002008-05-22T21:18:00.000-05:00Jonathan:He can castigate all he wants, and it doe...Jonathan:<BR/><BR/>He can castigate all he wants, and it does not bother me in the least. We have had his extremist views pegged for a year and he doesn’t like it.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I’m not sure I could endure reading a doctrinal statement from him. Plowing through his long, convoluted, disjointed thread comments is hard enough. I read so much from him that is so disconcerting from a theological stand point; a major work from him would be just too much, IMO.<BR/><BR/>Since we already have plenty on record from him that clearly confirms his heretical views, a major work from him is IMO unnecessary.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for the thread and for the visit. Feel free to surf my blog.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LouLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-57235652848827611302008-05-22T21:10:00.000-05:002008-05-22T21:10:00.000-05:00Jon P./Stephen:Note of thanks to you men for your ...Jon P./Stephen:<BR/><BR/>Note of thanks to you men for your input at <I>Sharper Iron</I> last week, and this week at <I>Head of the Moor</I>.<BR/><BR/>At <I><B>Head of the Moor</B></I> the egregious errors of the <I>Crossless</I> gospel, articulated by Antonio da Rosa (aka- <A HREF="http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2008/02/sock-puppet.html" REL="nofollow"><B>Sock Puppet: <I>fg me</I></B></A>) were fully exposed by his own comments.<BR/><BR/>I trust our efforts will further isolate and contain this teaching and protect unsuspecting believers from falling into the trap of the <I>Crossless/Deityless</I> gospel of the GES.<BR/><BR/>Kind regards,<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-55919121266222787182008-05-22T20:35:00.000-05:002008-05-22T20:35:00.000-05:00Lou, I think you have summarized the thread accura...Lou, I think you have summarized the thread accurately. As I showed in one of my final comments, he contradicts himself on a number of fronts in the thread - further complicating the issue. I don't see how he can castigate us for not understanding him while his writing is so obfuscated. I hope he takes up my challenge to draw up a statement of faith.Jonathan Moorheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03687367307942260277noreply@blogger.com