tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post7794318775469381014..comments2024-02-27T03:28:22.684-06:00Comments on In Defense of the Gospel: Evaluation of “Crossless” Theology, Part 3Lou Martuneachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-41186071368667870182008-02-22T22:28:00.000-06:002008-02-22T22:28:00.000-06:00Bot:I am war to give you fair warning; I am likely...Bot:<BR/><BR/>I am war to give you fair warning; I am likely going to delete your posts. You posted this same comment here and at another thread.<BR/><BR/>I am not going to let my blog be used to promote the false, cultic Mormon religion.<BR/><BR/>Mormons should be the object of fervent, prayerful evangelistic outreach for they are deceived, lost and on the way to Hell.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-19935348440349193042008-02-09T09:25:00.000-06:002008-02-09T09:25:00.000-06:00Matthew:I'd like to return a similar comment, but ...Matthew:<BR/><BR/>I'd like to return a similar comment, but the Scriptures forbid me.<BR/><BR/>Romans 16:17-18 & 2 Thess. 3:6, 14-15 are mandated courses of action for every believer when faced with the teaching and advocates of major doctrinal error, which the “<I>Crossless</I>” gospel, without any question, is.<BR/><BR/>The Apostle Paul admonished believers: “<I>Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple</I>,” (<B>Romans 16:17-18</B>).<BR/><BR/>The Bible says, “Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord” (<B>2 Cor. 6:17</B>). “From such turn away” (<B>2 Tim. 3:5</B>). “Withdraw yourselves” (<B>2 Thess. 3:6</B>). “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (<B>Eph. 5:11</B>). “Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good” (<B>Rom. 12:9</B>). “Prove all things; hold fast that which good” (<B>1 Thess. 5:21</B>). <BR/><BR/>Some of the above refer to unbelievers; I do consider you born again, but an erring and disobedient brother.<BR/><BR/>Because you are a vocal advocate of the Hodges’ false interpretation of the Gospel I cannot express any appreciation for or encouragement to you.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-73112135907409920492008-02-09T08:22:00.000-06:002008-02-09T08:22:00.000-06:00Well I do appreciate the trouble you are taking to...Well I do appreciate the trouble you are taking to articulate what you find objectionable about the GES position.Matthew Celestinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02874430461346560520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-13832274120926793912008-02-09T06:40:00.000-06:002008-02-09T06:40:00.000-06:00Matthew:My point was that the UoG blog is dominate...Matthew:<BR/><BR/>My point was that the UoG blog is dominated by contributors, such as yourself, who have been deceived by the erroneous teachings of Zane Hodges on the Gospel and propagate those errors at UoG and various other pro-Crossless blogs.<BR/><BR/>The doctrinal errors of the "<I>Crossless</I>" gospel are what I referred to when I wrote, "<I>Unashamed is a blog that is dominated by advocates of the 'Crossless' gospel and they are <B>trumpeting</B>' their errors there</I>."<BR/><BR/>Where Rose is concerned: I gave her some distance on that. She claims, to some degree, to reject "<I>Crossless</I>" theology, but cooperates with and defends the advocates of this egregious doctrnal error at UoG and at her own blog<BR/><BR/>So, I trust you now understand that my concern is not with the blog, only the false gospel that UoG is trying to champion and propagate.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-85695460472793513152008-02-09T03:54:00.000-06:002008-02-09T03:54:00.000-06:00Lou, I appreciate your taking time to address what...Lou, I appreciate your taking time to address what you see as errors in the Unashamed of Grace blog.<BR/><BR/>If you would care to explain clearly what these errors are I will be happy to respond to them.<BR/><BR/>God Bless<BR/><BR/>MatthewMatthew Celestinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02874430461346560520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-80356542818749077472008-02-08T19:22:00.000-06:002008-02-08T19:22:00.000-06:00Brian:You raise a point I'd like to address.Unasha...Brian:<BR/><BR/>You raise a point I'd like to address.<BR/><BR/>Unashamed is a blog that is dominated by advocates of the "<I>Crossless</I>" gospel and they are "<I>trumpeting</I>" their errors there.<BR/><BR/>I also see Rose, who has expressed some level of disagreement with the (CG), but has taken a cooperative position with them at Unashamed. She also provides some what of a safe haven for the advocates of the "<I>Crossless</I>" gospel at her blog as well.<BR/><BR/>IMO, this indicates that, although she is not "<I>trumpeting</I>" the "<I>Crossless</I>" interpretation of the Gospel, she does view it as "<I>some minor thing</I>."<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-76020504872269057532008-02-08T18:45:00.000-06:002008-02-08T18:45:00.000-06:00Good thoughts Lou,It almost seems like there was a...Good thoughts Lou,<BR/><BR/>It almost seems like there was a bit of providence in seeing John MaCain come out of nowhere when he was behind and everyone else was fighting for that top spot Matthew. I like MaCain as well. I do like ol Hucklebuck as well but find MaCains political savy and clever tactics intriguing. He is no stupee but he does tell corny jokes. I agree about Politics...it is the art of compromise. I do not agree that we should use that same cleverness and compromise in dealing with the cross though. This is where I part ways with how you all are considering this. The cross is not up for auction. I saw a billboard today where some family had posted their dead child and asked the question "Who killed her". Please call 1-888-and so on. You can be sure that the family cared formost about who and why she had to be killed.<BR/><BR/>The Bible is God's billboard to mankind and each page bleeds the blood of Christ. It is the whole point of the redemption of man. It is the Gospel. Jesus loved us so much that He died for us and our guilty hands that murdered Him because of our sin can now be cleansed and used for Him and helping others see why Jesus had to die for them.<BR/><BR/>Consider this Matthew. I encourage you and Rose and everyone else at unashamed to stop politicizing and compromising the gospel by either trumpeting this false view or by simply saying this is some minor thing.<BR/><BR/>Grace upon grace,<BR/><BR/>BrianOnly Lookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16074543462279905793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-26448111855430982582008-02-08T17:41:00.000-06:002008-02-08T17:41:00.000-06:00Matthew, You said, “When we interpret the Bible we...Matthew, <BR/><BR/>You said, “When we interpret the Bible we are dealing with eternal things. We are handling the very Word of God. If I say 'The Bible teaches this...' then I am declaring the counsel of God. If what I say is a faithful interpretation of the Scriptures it is absolute in its authority and is to be believed.”<BR/><BR/>Amen! I whole heartedly agree with that. In my refutation of Zane C. Hodges' new false gospel, I have declared the counsel of God with authority and power. I myself am nothing, but have written the truth that God has given to me by His grace, and have rightly exercised the priestly authority possessed by all born-again saints. Neither Hodges nor his disciples can rightfully claim this authority when they teach their false gospel.<BR/><BR/>You said, “Zane Hodges is not a prophet; he cannot claim that his very words are inspired, nevertheless if he may be one of those to whom God has granted the gift of teacher.”<BR/><BR/>Having the gift of teacher does not make one immune to falling into the sin of heresy. Hodges once taught the same Gospel as I do. Would you say his past teachings concerning the Gospel are the counsel of God because he is a gifted teacher? Or would you simply say that he didn't have the gift back then? Or maybe he had a little light then that just got brighter in the last few years?<BR/><BR/>You said, “God grants men the gift of teaching and inspires them by the Holy Ghost to do that work of proclaiming the doctrines and purpose of God in the present age through the Scriptures.”<BR/><BR/>Amen! Throughout the entire Church Age there have always been saints that have preached the true Gospel. <BR/><BR/>You said, “Though Hodges has received no new revelation, he has expounded the Scriptures to us and if we find that his interpretation of the Gospel is correct, we must pay heed to this doctrine and proclaim it to others. If Zane Hodges doctrine is of God we must treat it as absolute in its authority.”<BR/><BR/>That “if” shall remain eternally unfulfilled, for Hodges' doctrine has been soundly refuted and shown to be a lie. <BR/><BR/>Not everyone who has been carried away with his lie will be recovered in this life, for their consciences are too deeply seared. However, my prayer is that some will be recovered and be used mightily for God's glory, and that no other saint falls prey to the “crossless gospel”.<BR/><BR/>PEPhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465988205120053926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-14741322634672636592008-02-08T15:24:00.000-06:002008-02-08T15:24:00.000-06:00Matthew:I appreciate your note.From what I am gath...Matthew:<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your note.<BR/><BR/>From what I am gathering the “<I>Crossless</I>” gospel has never been taught in evangelical circles until Hodges drew his conclusions.<BR/><BR/>Many in the FG community are attesting that Zane Hodges has developed and is propagating an erroneous interpretation of the Gospel. Their conclusion is drawn from comparing the teaching of Hodges with the Word of God.<BR/><BR/>The Hodges (Wilkin/GES) interpretation of the Gospel does not stand the test of Scripture without reinventing and twisting the clear teaching of Scripture. We, therefore, must treat it as a false gospel. <BR/><BR/>Since the Hodges/Wilkin “<I>Crossless</I>” interpretation of the Gospel is a false gospel, we must, furthermore, follow the biblical mandates to “<I>mark, avoid, withdraw, have no company with</I>, and <I>admonish him</I>.” (<B>Rom. 16:17; 2 Thess. 3:6, 14-15</B>)<BR/><BR/>The goal should be to recover Hodges, Wilkin and those who have been deceived by this teaching. We must warn and protect other believers and churches from being swept away by these egregious errors on the Gospel of Jesus Christ that have their origin with Zane Hodges.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-83937175446246049842008-02-08T14:08:00.000-06:002008-02-08T14:08:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-84587393255863781152008-02-08T10:41:00.000-06:002008-02-08T10:41:00.000-06:00"Does the writer equate the “refined” theology of ..."Does the writer equate the “refined” theology of Zane Hodges with the likes of Moses, Daniel and the Apostle Paul’s contributions to our understanding of the Word of God?" <BR/><BR/>Yes.<BR/><BR/>That is if it is correct.<BR/><BR/>When we intepret the Bible we are dealing with eternal things. We are handling the very Word of God.<BR/><BR/>If I say "The Bible teaches this..." then I am declaring the counsel of God. If what I say is a faithful interpretation of the Scriptures it is absolute in its authority and is to be believed.<BR/><BR/>I drew an analogy between Zane Hodges and Moses, John, etc.<BR/><BR/>This is not an exact analogy but it teaches a vital truth, that God raises up particular men to draw attention to His Word.<BR/><BR/>Zane Hodges is not a prophet; he cannot claim that his very words are inspired, nevertheless if he may be one of those to whom God has granted the gift of teacher. <BR/><BR/>God grants men the gift of teaching and inspires them by the Holy Ghost to do that work of proclaiming the doctrines and purpose of God in the present age through the Scriptures.<BR/><BR/>Though Hodges has received no new revelation, he has expounded the Scriptures to us and if we find that his interpretation of the Gospel is correct, we must pay heed to this doctrine and proclaim it to others.<BR/><BR/>If Zane Hodges doctrine is of God we must treat it as absolute in its authority.<BR/><BR/>Every Blessing in Christ<BR/><BR/>MatthewMatthew Celestinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02874430461346560520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-50073864787593335662008-02-08T07:55:00.000-06:002008-02-08T07:55:00.000-06:00Men:I don’t normally mind political discussions, b...Men:<BR/><BR/>I don’t normally mind political discussions, but there is something more important going on here.<BR/><BR/>Political elections have to do with the temporal; the Gospel has to do with the eternal. The “<I>Crossless</I>” gospel of Zane Hodges (Bob Wilkin and the GES) is no less a false interpretation of the Gospel than <I>Lordship Salvation</I> is.<BR/><BR/>The “<I>Crossless</I>” gospel is as corruptive and non-saving, as far as the lost are concerned, as <I>Lordship Salvation</I> is, just from opposite ends of the theological pendulum swing.<BR/><BR/>The omission and addition errors respectively need to be fervently and biblically resisted because neither leads men to salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord.<BR/><BR/>This passage helps me to keep my head in election years. “<I>The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will</I>,” (<B>Prov. 21:1</B>).<BR/><BR/><BR/>LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-46647397859643015012008-02-08T02:01:00.000-06:002008-02-08T02:01:00.000-06:00Brian, I think McCain is great and I really hope h...Brian, I think McCain is great and I really hope he becomes president.<BR/><BR/>You cannot do politics without compromising sometimes.Matthew Celestinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02874430461346560520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30991724.post-23919547981139589692008-02-07T17:29:00.000-06:002008-02-07T17:29:00.000-06:00It appears there is a strong level of indignation ...It appears there is a strong level of indignation over Polictics at the reasonable blog and MaCains stealth tact at carefully and strategic compromises with liberals and the relational aspect over political truth, with some heafty guilt by political association than there is over the compromise with the GES and their association of open minded people involved in this neo-gospel appeal.<BR/><BR/>It would seem to me that biblical truth would be counted of greater importance than political truth, but perhaps this is why we are in the sad shape we are in in this country, because we have put the cross on the backburner.<BR/><BR/>Paul was not much involved in politics, but he did determine to know nothing, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.<BR/><BR/>We get concerned that we will lose our slice of the pie here in our American dream, but we don't seem to be as concerned about what pie we are slicing away at in the kingdom of God and the compromise we embrace there. Why in the world do we then pray for God to bless America if counting the blood of Jesus Christ spilled at the cross to not be of the most noteworthy value of all. The blood of Jesus is more precious than any Job...or any amount of money I may have. What He did for me there at the cross is priceless. I don't wish to compromise with anybody on that. Friend or no friend.<BR/><BR/>I am not sitting on any fence on this one. He gave His life for me. What could be more important than that. This is how we know what love is.<BR/><BR/>Grace upon grace,<BR/><BR/>BrianOnly Lookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16074543462279905793noreply@blogger.com